Am planning to take a 2 day Hi Perf driving course and am looking at the offerings of Skip Barber's school at Laguna Seca. They have a stable of 911's and BMW's and the cost is about $3000. The west coast location works best for me. Does anyone have experience with this school or other suggestioins.
Thanks
John
87 euro S4

 

As far as I know Barber doesn't have Porsche's or BMW's. They are all Mazda, all the time now.

 

that's a new program. i've seen their 997 and m3 at lime rock.

 

They have 911's, Boxsters, M3's and 330i's. They said the Lime Rock school is getting Caymen's (vs. Boxsters) in order to meet the "broomstick" rule.

 

I am doing the 3 day Racing School at Lime Rock in a week and a half - praying for good weather. Have been reading the book Going Faster in preparation. I wish I knew of this book years ago. Highly recommended.

 

Wow, that looks like a fun program.

What do you want to get out of the program I think is the question you need to ask?

 

$3000 pays for about 15 driver's schools with PCA - and you get one-on-one instruction, classroom, and learn your own car. By your 15th DE you could reasonably expect to be in an Advanced / Solo run group, making the car do everything you want it to, lapping the track at an extremely quick pace, etc. I think after a Skippy couple of days, you'd still be a novice.

 

I gotta agree with this. Basic training may cost the same doing DEs but you get it from seat time. A couple of days at a novice school just doesn't seem to me to provide the practice time needed. Now, advanced coaching is another story. An advanced solo driver could probably get their money's worth from a school taught by pro drviers.

 

Case in point is Cups & Saucers (advanced only DE at Watkins Glen) where you can hire a professional driver for a session.

What tends to happen is you plateau - so the first 5 DEs your learning curve is extreme, then you might know the line and the basics, and continue to improve but not at the same pace. Then 10 DEs later you might have a Eureka moment and move off a plateau. By the time you are in Black, you might work very hard over the course of several DEs just to improve one aspect of your driving.

Seat time with a PCA instructor in multiple DEs...

 

+1 but it seems to attract many people at first because they don't want to use their cars

 

Bingo - there's usually a pre-set deductible payment if you wad up the car at Skippy. If you wad up your own little pride and joy and don't have DE insurance, start crying. Unless your carrier covers DEs, which extremely few do now. 15 DEs would definitely be better learning for the money spent vs. a 2 or 3 day school, though. That is of course assuming you get some good instruction at the DEs.

 

Instruction at DEs is very good, but in my opinion can be limited for the following reason. I have found that novices can sometimes move fairly quickly from green to yellow run groups, often after just 1 day on the track. And in yellow, I have seen some students get signed off to run solo after just a handful of sessions (not events), and soon may find themselves running solo in blue. Solo participants should try to get instructors to ride with them to continue to learn, but often the instructors are so busy with students, getting ready for runs, that they are not able to instruct those who have been signed off. I do think over the past year or so a more rigid program has been instituted to move from one group to the next, but again once solo there is less opportunity for instruction.

In terms of the value of racing schools, I hope I get a lot out of it. I agree that the expense could cover many DEs, but I also feel lucky to be able to afford it. After readng the Going Faster book, I hope that I am taught and can put to practice in their cars much of what I am reading about. Obviously I will need seat time back in my own car, but I am finding a whole lot in the book that isn't covered or taught in DEs. In DEs you learn by some instruction and seat time, and perhaps learn the art, but the book and hopefully the school I will attend in a few weeks will teach me more of the science and I can merge the two.

 

If you really want to have some fun, go here:
http://www.springmountainmotorsports.com/

Friend of mine goes every year to brush up on his skills. Do the Radical class vs. the Corvette's:
http://www.springmountainmotorsports.../PageID=827438

 

What is nice about Skip Barber is that they will have you do exercises on particular aspects of driving before they put it all together. It is a lot easier to grasp the basics that way. Once you have some mastery of the school cars, you will be planning on getting your own car out on the track.

Lots of fun.

 

Absolutely take the pro school over DE's. Trying to equate dollars times # of DE's is fake logic.

The pro schools provide fundamental and basic principles to build upon...in a format with pro instructors who likely know how to teach. In DE's who you get as an instructor is often a luck of the draw, and while they may be good drivers they may not be equally good teachers.

I went to PDE before my first DE and consider it (or similar schools) as a pre-requisite for anyone before setting wheels on a track. Just my humble opinion of course.

Performance driving is analogous to learning golf. Would you rather learn from a teaching pro or your buddies. Now, your buddies may be reasonably good golfers but that does not by itself qualify them to be good teachers. There are exceptions, of course. I was very fortunate to have gotten some great instructors at my first couple of DE's...but as said it's the luck of the draw.

Cheers!