RJFabCab

Larry,

Nice save at RA (Rain Atlanta)! Seat time and experience... you sensed it and El Braino did the rest.

What the heck tires were you running?

Cheers

Carrera GT

Nice work with not over-driving once you felt that tail overtaking.

In my humble, the video shows a half turn shuffle, then an instant "let God drive" and then you eased the throttle in enough to get out of the trailing throttle oversteer.

The tail was coming around for a long time, very slowly, because of the trailing throttle and very smooth line into T1. I imagine you had just a half a big toe less throttle than usual and perhaps trailed too deep compared to previous laps.

There was apparently more traction than the wet conditions would suggest because the 964 does not forgive tank-slappers at the best of times but it came back very nice as you exited the turn. Whether by design or good luck, staying on the dry (drier...) line was probably the saving grace -- letting the car run wide could have spelled disaster in the form of marbles, standing water and oil washed off the line.

Always fun to watch a good 964 video -- belies just how much of a handful the 964 can become once the pendulum swings.

Rick DeMan

Ahhhh....pure luck...

MPD47

Nice save Larry! I've got a couple videos from AutoX'ing a few years ago where I cant see my hands due to frame rate on my Sony MiniDV cam. (Well you can, but they are blurry and 4 sets of them).

Mike in Chi

Terrific save Larrry

But I was even more impressed by the pass going into 10. Very cool

RickBetterley

Nicely done, Larry - I love how you included a slo mo clip at the end.
How come you drive faster in the wet than I do in the dry?
BTW, I noticed that you seem to have a stock interior rear view mirror; in racing, wouldn't you want one of the wide angle mirrors? I know we have had some mirror threads and perhaps you have already commented on mirror choice.
At any rate - nice clip/nice driving.

George A

Larry,

Experience and feel go a long way. Luckily, the track were I did most of my learning had nothing to hit. No wall, no barriers, nothing, just dirt and grass for several yards out of the track. Things have changed since they added an extra 1.3 miles to it. I would go off track all the time (I mean all the time). It was really frowned upon by the powers that be at DE's. That's why I started doing mostly member days. Not a lot of cars and a great way to learn that "feel". I am a firm believer that you do not really know the edge until you cross it. Anyway, I hope this doesn't sound like I'm advocating going off track all the time......

Great save by the way. Here is a little ditty of me getting a little to sideways.

http://www.p993.org/video/TWS-Sprint2-2007-Slide.wmv

G.

Flying Finn

Nice save Larry! And other also, especially George, that was pretty high speed.

After watchins a lot of "saves" and doing few of them myself, I still can't understand the thing I often hear people referring where you should first countersteer, then WAIT (WTF would you wait?!), and then do something else (can't remember how it goes).

I've watched some of the videos where I make saves and also watching others, and especially when seeing some really quick saves, I don't see any waiting and I can't understand what would you wait and why?
IMO there's no friggin' time to wait when you're hauling *** and all of a sudden your tail swings out!

It's the experience and the feel that you learn from it that allows you to correct in time. You can't think these things &/or what to do, if you do, it's too late and you spin. As said before, you have to sense the tail coming out sort of before it happens.

Below is one more "clip of saves". It's a collection of saves from one session at Sebring with worn out MPSCs, I'm trying to catch a 964 race car in front of me and fighting a car that was very oversteering (those worn out tyres).
It's 5 min. long so if you don't want to watch all of it, here are when the "saves" happen:
At 33 sec. (in Bishob Bend ao it's pretty fast) 1.35, 1.40, 2.07, 2.27, 3.56 & 4.07 (this I maybe like the most, that's T17).

"Moments" with Flying Finn

purplehaze.

Nice save, Larry! Very impressive, and immediate.

I find some track guys still look down on auto-x experience, but it DOES teach car control like no other. Exceptional responsiveness.

Veloce Raptor

I have heard that it does. I do not look down on AX at all, but have never tried it. Being greedy, I like my track weekends to provide several hours of track time, and I know my personality type would not...um....fit well with an event where you sit around for hours & then get 45-90 seconds of track time. That's just me. But some exceptional drovers came from AX: Randy Pobst, Larry Herman, etc.

George A

Finn, I wish I could explain in words the process but I can't. I think each one is different and requires different actions to make the save. And yes, the process begins way before the back end starts going.

G.

Veloce Raptor

Finn, I think the theory of which you speak is the following:

Presuming you are ahead of the car (as Larry & George suggest), you countersteer into the oversteer as it begins. Then, you bring the steering back to dead center for a split second in order to stabilize the chassis just as the CG begins to shift from one side to the other. You do this to prevent the inevitable tank-slapper that will occur if you keep the countersteer dialed in. Then, after being at dead center for an instant, you turn very slightly the other way (opposite the countersteer) in order to prevent the car from oversteering in the opposite direction.

At high speeds, all of this happens quickly in theory, and among experienced drovers is one smooth, indistinguishable process.

EDIT: multiple typos corrected

jimculp

Nice save and video.

Z-man

Larry, that was one impressive save. And I agree with Mike in Chi -- the pass/T10 combo was pretty sweet too.

Nice to hear your advise as well - while some may believe autocrossing is just "kiddies playing in a parking lot" there are skills learned there can come in handy at the track.

-Z-man.

Larry Herman

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

As both George and Finn (Peter?) ably show, the correction starts immediately with the slide. And as soon as the tires feel the input and start to regain traction the correction is removed. If you wait until after the slide stops, you are behind the car, and it will snap back the other way. That is how most of the spins to the inside occur, not because the correction was applied too late (although that happens a lot) but because it was not removed soon enough.

BTW Finn showed exactly how to gather up a car that loses the tail and then runs wide (in turn 1). Catch the back, and then drive the arc needed to keep the car under control, even if it means purposely taking it off of the track.

Finally, Rick, I seem to be able to see who is around me just fine with the regular mirror.