boqueron

I have to second the thoughts about PSM and electronic aids on a track. I believe that - specially on a 4WD Porsche - they are extremely invasive. I drove a C4, later a 996T ( with the best track times attained with PSM off) , only to realise ( with my present GT3 ) that electronics were hidding the behaviour of the car. Driving without PSM made me a much better - track - driver.

PS.- I would LOVE to have PSM on my GT3 when driving on the streets...

RonCT

I think everyone debating the negatives of PSM may be losing focus of what DEs are about, especially for a student that has say less than 10 under his belt. Would you think it's reasonable to learn the basics of Driver's Education leaving things like ABS, PSM, airbags, etc. on? Or should one go immediately to a race prepared car with 6 points, R-comps, no electronics, etc. I'm just giving the book ends between a street car for a beginner who wants to learn and a race car in the hands of a new student. The more you switch off, the closer to a race car you get.

So let's say you start with zero experience and then after 10 DEs are aware and confident enough and have learned the basics like 1) Where the flaggers are, 2) to constantly use peripheral vision to monitor mirrors (would you say that your peripheral vision was ramped up after only 6 DEs?), 3) to be 100% smooth on throttle / brake / throttle transition so as to not upset the car, 4) That you've mastered heel-toe downshifting also to not upset the car, 4) that you have the line down 100% - not only the race line, but off-line from late passing and suddenly things are very different, 5) that you fully understand the vehicle dynamics of your car so you know in advance what it's going to do if you give it a little too much throttle, too little, have to adjust abruptly to avoid another car, muffler, cone, etc., 7) That you don't panic if feeling too "hot" heading to TO that you lift and spin, etc.

Believe me, I'm all for losing the training wheels... When the student is ready. If the student started DE life without electronic controls, then each instructor understood that, the student understood that, etc. But to switch off something that was probably working overtime and the student didn't realize it. The more modern cars by default instill great confidence - partly due to the advancement of engineering and materials (ie: Tires - think about PS2s vs. PS), partly due to the electronic controls such as ABS, PSM, etc.

There is an awful lot of input hitting a new student and changing the "laws of physics" in the 4th session of the 6th DE is not a good idea. Frankly, I'm surprised that a student with only 6 DEs under his belt was out there solo. Having learned through BMW schools, I'd say it was probably 2 full years and 15 DEs in before solo was even an option - and that's for the quickest learning student. Even after that, all BMW students in the chapters I drove with had a 1st session instructor for a "check-up" - even when I was Advanced / Solo. These chapters also mandate street tires until Yellow, which is the 3rd step in the run group progression and 1 step away from the most advanced / solo group. Margin of safety...

As to DSC / PSM being too invasive, I haven't found that at all when driving smoothly. Both BMW and Porsche systems allow full 4-wheel drift, rear-wheel kick, car rotation, etc. That smoothness (with or without DSC / PSM) translates into very quick lap times. Via TraqMate, I have not found any difference in lap times with or without PSM on - my driving style doesn't change.

Now Racing and Racing training - that's a totally different thing. If you are looking to fast-track to be a racer, then maybe DE is the wrong approach. Maybe it's to go to Skippy and learn to race and bypass the DE route.

Please don't interpret this as an argument to rely on electronics and never learn vehicle dynamics. It's about two forms of learning - one is DE to learn the basics and the other is to learn to race. There's a time to swtich off, but if you compartmentalize the learning into 1) The Basics, and 2) Advanced without controls, then I think the student will benefit. By this student's own admission, he wasn't ready, he made a sudden decision to switch off, and that decision cost him a crash.

Side note - it was driven into me during my years of learning that the 4th session of every day is the one you take very easy because of fatigue and dehydration. Typically, when I used to "relax" more for the 4th session, I found myself shocked at how much smoother and quicker I was - that's when I always moved up from the plateau. When you try to drive fast, you tend not to. When you drive relaxed (steer with light palms, relaxed breathing, etc.) that's when you are incredibly focused and quick.

Jscaramella

My vote is that the car be taught without the aids. When a driver reaches a higher skill level he can then discern what aids can/will help them.

If there is a "must have on" in place for these devices to remain active; I think those cars and drivers are better off in instructed groups for a while. I have been behind to many cars where I can actually see the aids preventing disaster and the drivers still over compensate for a situation they are not prepared for. An example is seeing one of these new C4S’s fly under the bridge at Lime rock; see the car twitch to prevent a slide and then the driver locks up the brakes anyway, wasn’t good for me! In fact it's drawn me away from most DE's all together. I stick to open track days and races now, call me crazy but they seem safer to me. Not knocking the instructor classes whom I’m sure are more consistent drivers, but I’m not an instructor so I have never had the opportunity to be in those runs groups anyway.

In the end if the owner is there to learn then there should be no rush to solo with or w/o the aids

bobt993

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx-oTQx7QSw