SundayDriver

Sheesh - I can't believe that you guys have missed the most obvious and best learning tool. Have GhettoRacist ride with you and take time off your laps. Only $1,000.00 per second.

paradisenb

I think practicing getting the wheels off and back on the track is a great idea. I often wonder what this will feel like when it happens to me.

Driving off line is a MUST DO exercise. My instructor had me drive off the DE line in turns 1 and 6 at Road Atlanta recently. This is a very good exercise and should be taught to all students prior to solo. There will come a time.

As for intentional extreme under or oversteer on the track. NOT! This is what AX is for. Agreed, we need to know how to recover or do a 2 feet in move, and know the right time for each but, at high speeds on the track does not seem like the place to practice to me.

The water in the glass visual is pretty good. Don't spill the water!

As for 'no brakes', I'm down with that. Probably very helpful.

TD in DC

I think AX is a completely different environment with completely different goals.

The goal of AX is to keep your car under control and get the shortest time possible.

Unfortunately, if you engage in DEs or racing long enough, you likely will have a hhigh speed slide or skid, and unless you have the car control skills to handle the situation, you very well could have a nasty wreck. The problem is that there are few venues for practicing serious car control skills. Now, I am not suggesting that you have to do this at 100 mph, but setting up a corner on wet asphalt provides you with a different learning experience than you can get from a round skidpad or an AX, where your goals are different.

Car control skills are, IMHO, the single most important skill in terms of safety and speed. Unfortunately, too many DErs are able to drive extremely fast on the track without ever developing those skills. I am just suggesting that it might be wise to focus directly on developing those skills rather than assuming that drivers will pick it up naturally.

paradisenb

How could this be accomplished safely?
The basic idea is great and I would like to gain more experience than I get at AX events where I have totally spun out (2 feet in) and over and understeered and recovered.

TD in DC

It could be accomplished the same way they do it at Skip Barber. You could either do it on a track where there is lots of runoff and then wet that section of the track down so that speeds are greatly reduced or, more likely, find a big honking parking lot, like the kinds they use for AX and set the cones up for the specific exercises.

One exercise they did at Skip Barber was to set up a straight with a serious kink in it. When you hit the kink you are supposed to lift off the throttle to induce TTO, and then the exercise is to catch the car without going outside the cones. Very good exercise.

Jerseybean

It's been done, see link

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...top+gear+blind

DrJupeman

Z, my thought is that if you want to learn in Red, do your own thing on your time. No one should freak out that you are taking an unorthodox line through a turn if you want. (Some regions may freak out about this kind of thing - why, I don't know.)

The disparity of driver talent even in red is so large I think any forced exercise would no doubt **** off someone. If a region really wants to do something like this, have them do it on the dedicated instructor day which larger regions often have. This day is usually pretty discounted and is intended to be training, and whatnot. Folks don't have to sign up for it if they don't want to.

To beat on your off line recommendation more, if you are in red and not already fully confident in driving offline, perhaps you shouldn't be in red.

Your suggestion about the rain line I agree with. My region never taught me any rain lines so I just figure them out now or listen to the whispering in the paddock for the best way to drive in the wet and then go see if the whispers are right...

Jack is dead on with this: "Nothing sorts through excuses like a lap time." If you want to improve, start timing yourself. If you can't do that in DE, find time trials or come racing. I guarantee you will become a better driver.

Bull

I would not be willing to give up a full run group in order to do an inforced practice of any of these "exercises" Z. If you need them in the "advanced/Instructor" run groups, you need to step down a group or two and have at it.

Actually, I have often seen you practicing the "off-line" exercise.....

Jon Moeller

The only issue that I have with AX is the limited time you have on the course. In ideal conditions, you have 6 minutes of driving in which to learn car control (if you're a beginner), and work on mastering your times.

If you're interested in learning car control, I would strongly recommend an AX school (I attended the Evolution school, and can't recommend it enough). AX can safely expose you to slip-angles that you don't encounter during a normal DE session. If you're first time encountering a severe skid is on track at speed, it's a crapshoot.

-J

CarreraCup03

Hey Moeller ... I hope all is well. Go union dutchman!

fork_included

go out and buy some cheepo rims and a stack of cheepo tires

i dunno about high end porsches, but you can take out the abs fuse and disable all your traction control stuff

find an empty parking lot and go nuts, the cheep tires will make sure you lose control at a relativly slow speed (i'm talking bald all seasons) that way you can get a feel for how the car handles when one end or the other loses grip, since the feeling of losing grip will be almost the same (some race tires tend to lose grip without you really feeling it)

SundayDriver

I did that at Skip Barber.

Wait, that was a RA lapping day and it was THE KINK. I didn't see any cones, but there was plenty of wall.

Z-man

So perhaps an URG session is not the best venue for such exercises - maybe as mentioned above, a lunchtime session or an additional session would work...

-Z

Veloce Raptor

Two zero's and a dog. BWHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Bull

Now you are on to something.