jaholmes

There is a Swift Formula Atlantic 008.a project car on ebay. Most of the car is there it just needs to be put back together and some suspension, wheels, tires are needed to get it back on the track. All of the major body parts are there except for some small pieces. They say the tub is in "great" shape. It has engine and transmission too. Any idea what it would cost to get it back on the track. It looks like the market for a complete car is $45k to $55k.

Anyway, any one have experience putting one of these back together. Any caution to buying something that is in pieces. Is there a danger that it is a hodge-podge of spare parts and requires a lot of fabrication to get it back together. Where do you get parts. Is it possible to upgrade some of the part to the newer 014.a version.

Anyone driven one of these. They seem like a very quick fun car to drive. Is SCCA Formula racing the only venue for these cars, or is it a small field. It looks like Formula Mazda has a larger field.

I know if you have to ask then you can't afford it, but any idea of running costs for these cars.

I am going to be in SoCal next week and debating on visiting Swift Engineering. Is it worth the trip. Are there any other shops worth visiting.

hacker-pschorr

Most of vintage events will have a class for these cars. All three vintage weekends at Road America usually have a pretty good field of modern formula cars. You might be on the track with Jean Alesi's Ferrari, up close and personal when he fly's by! That alone would be worth the cost of admission.

Matt Romanowski

No car just needs assembling....It came apart for a reason. Most items on cars like this are custom / require modifications and lots of time spent setting up. Also, not having some stuff could be very expensive.

Professor Helmüt Tester

Looked it up on ebay...looks like a pro team fished around in the back of their shop, found an extra tub and enough parts to pretend it's a whole car, and is trying to sell it off to pay off their tire bills or credit card balances. Cynical ? Yes. But probably true.

If you're serious, find out the history of the tub...whether it's been crashed or the number of hours on it; get a build sheet on the motor...Hasselgren should be able to confirm a 'last build' date...but you really need somebody who knows formula cars...Swifts or Ralts or something similar...to inventory stuff and figure out if there is most of what you need to build a car.

Atlantics have blistering performance, but with it comes a brain-numbing maintenance schedule. They're built to go fast...and NOT to be easy to live with.

SCCA...maybe Midwest Council or some of the smaller clubs out near you...but you'll never find large fields like you would at an SCCA National. You'll also have a problem finding opportunities to just play with it, as it's not HPDE-day friendly.

Somebody is selling it for a good reason....personally, I'd run away screaming.

SundayDrover, who regularly plays in the high-speed, high-maintenance world of open-wheelish cars might also offer some insight....Mark...you out there ? Was looking for you in the paddock at Sebring from Tuesday thru Saturday...never saw you...saw everybody else on earth, but not you. Didn't have email or your cellphone. Day-um. Hope your Mazda guy kept out of the mess on Friday afternoon...that was pretty ugly.

Geo

Chris Walrod (who frequents here) is an engineer for Swift. Perhaps he'll be able to add some info. Also, Chad (Wombat7) is a pro Formula Atlantic engineer and he frequents here occasionally as well. Both may be decent resources. That said, Herr Professor has given some excellent advice.

Formula Atlantic: Some assembly required. Scary if you're not certain about what you're doing.

flashgordon

I worked on a lot of atlantic cars in the 80's but have not touched one in 15 years. I would turn and run from that car. There are many parts missing from that car that will cost a small fortune to replace. The labor to assemble a complete car would be a daunting task for anyone without a good amount of experience and would cost a boatload of $$$ if you paid a shop to do it. If you are interested in a formula atlantic car, I would find a complete car that may need a motor or some other job that is not so overwhelming. Any formula atlantic car is going to demand a huge amount of your time and money to maintain, but the ride is well worth the effort. As far as field size is concerned, I would not plan on seeing more than 6-8 cars at a national level scca event. If you want to race formula cars, I would suggest looking into formula ford or formula continental. The cost are less and the racing is much more competetive. You have less options with an atlantic since there are not many clubs that run them.

chris walrod

Yes sir, I know quite a bit about that car. Where it came from, who has it now etc.

In fact, I built the tubs and subassemblies for those things back in 1997.

It is missing some items we no longer manufacture, like the roll hoop fairing for example. It was purchased last year from one of our Pro teams and never reassembled, obviously.

Personally, I would look for an 014.a -- much stiffer (~30%) and with a purposely designed gearbox (SG3), a much better shifting car. Less costly in the long run to maintain. Full epoxy prepreg bodywork as well.

...and yes, they are A LOT of maintenance and attention to detail!! I cannot say that loud enough

I would be more than happy to share, with anyone who is interested, suspension guides, aero manuals, parts manuals etc. The 008.a and the 014.a both share identical suspension geometry and many components.

Here are a few images that show the differences between the 008.a and the 014.a -- First is what 008.a content was used in the 014.a -- the second is what was new for the 014.a

chris walrod

Here is a see through of the SG3 sequential gearbox

jaholmes

Wow, I hit the jackpot with Chris being a rennlist member and first hand knowledge of the car.

This is very helpful insight from everyone. I guess when you see a car reduced to a few boxes you know you have your work cut out. I was definitely underestimating to skill required to put it together and the potential cost of unique hard to find parts. I also wasn't expecting the high level of maintenance. I am married and that is maintenance enough for me.

This sums it up:

"Atlantics have blistering performance, but with it comes a brain-numbing maintenance schedule. They're built to go fast...and NOT to be easy to live with."


Chris, I will PM you. Since I did a lot of research I would like to know what's missing and get more insight into the Swift 014.a. It sounds like the cars track ability is addictive. I do have a place to run one of these and the HSR races seems to be where you can run with other formula cars. I will pay more attention at the Brian Redman event this year at Road America.


Thanks again.

SundayDriver

I didn't make it to Sebring - family emergency. I thought I emailed you but I may have missed that. My guy avoided the mess - went from P20 up to top 10 or thereabouts until he followed another car off track and ended up 19 or 20. Felt good about their maiden outing and have decided to run almost the full series.

As far as the FA, I think there is a great deal of good advice here. These are incredibly fast cars that will test your skills and reflexes. But not nearly as much as they will test your wallet and patience. Big $$$ to keep them going and you need a lot of maintenance time on them. Some of the stuff is easy but still take s a lot of time.

If you want to learn to race, try SFR - a much better place to start. If you want a trackday toy, then the Radical is a good choice for a pretty fast car. The 1st gen Stohrs are much faster but somewhat higher maintenance than Radicals (at least the 2 seat SR-3).

JBH

If you want to try open wheel (I highly recommend it), try Formula Ford or Formula SCCA. Not as fast as FA, but a lot less headaches and $$$.

FF cars are easy to find and relatively low cost. FSCCA are manufactured to be all the same so as to let the driver skill determine who wins the race. They cost more upfront, but because everything is spec'd by SCCA, parts are easy to come by and not so expensive.

The best forum I know for formula cars is Apex Speed.

Chris: v. cool CAD drawings. Are those Solidworks?

jaholmes

I did find the Apex Speed forums and they were very helpful. It does look like the Formula Ford and Mazda are easier on the wallet and just as much fun. Still trying to figure out the Ford Zetec series.

wombat7

Someone pointed me to this thread so I'll chime in, but chris is much more of a resource than I am. From what I know about the differences between the 0.14 and 0.8s, def spend the extra money and get an 0.14 if the FA is where you want to go. You might also want to look into finding a Ralt. They were much faster than the Swift when they were running together. If you get one and need some setup help PM me!

Bryan Watts

FM is great on a budget as well...I've got one for sale.

Professor Helmüt Tester

I kept sticking my nose under any canopy marked Mazda, hoping to see your smiling face. After Friday morning, I figured you were either hiding or didn't make it. The primary car we dragged down ran like a champ all week, the driver was ecstatic...dropped 5+ seconds off of his best Sebring time. Also got a certain Mr. Prather of Kansas fame connected face-to-face...nice to have the racing godz bless the prep work.

Scary how many guys we both know were running the little LMP cars...Spicer, Cougar, Jay Green, Funk, Toombs...might just have to git me one-O-them cars.

Haven't seen the Cleveland Champ Car schedule yet...I'll probably be working it...are the Mazda guys on the bill there ?

Amen and howdy. Racing "lawn darts" is also somewhat more dangerous, due to lack of crush zones etc. Maybe I'm getting old and have crashed too many race cars, but there is a little voice saying "beware of the lawn darts".

That said...there are SCREAMING values in somewhat older Formula Continentals these days. RF98's with good spares sets are in the $15-20K range, and those suckers are QUICK (WGI long course - sub 2:00 in an FC). Zetec motors are starting to find their way into these chassis, which means that powerplant issues that existed with older Kent(ish) blocks are going to go away.

But....in the Perfessor's vernacular...any formula car is a "caterpillar car"...i.e. when you walk by one in the paddock, there are always legs sticking out from underneath...'cuz you're always tweaking on the car. It's not a ZO6 or Porker or BMW M-car that you can continually just beat on without doing any work.

Sunday is right...if you want 'track day & open cockpit', find a Radical. Slow & uncompetitive in racing, but reasonable maintenance schedule.