Watkins Glen video
03-21-2007, 10:29 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
I readily accede to those with more seat time there than I.
However, I also think you guys are confusing racing lines, where protecting the inside there is critical, with ultimate speed lines, which I was discussing. That difference was explained to me when I had to learn the Glen for the first time in qualifying (talk about stress) by another true pro who has won a bunch of pro races there, by the name of Boris Said. His point was that, in the race, there is plenty of grip on the tight line, and it can be fast. But if you have clear track of you are in qualifying and are looking for places to shave several tenths, you want to take the wider approach there specifically for the gain it gives you all the way down the hill thru 6 to 7.
Again, the difference between racing and qualifying.
Maybe this comes down to the differences between front-engined and rear-engined cars, since Boris primarily races the former.
However, I also think you guys are confusing racing lines, where protecting the inside there is critical, with ultimate speed lines, which I was discussing. That difference was explained to me when I had to learn the Glen for the first time in qualifying (talk about stress) by another true pro who has won a bunch of pro races there, by the name of Boris Said. His point was that, in the race, there is plenty of grip on the tight line, and it can be fast. But if you have clear track of you are in qualifying and are looking for places to shave several tenths, you want to take the wider approach there specifically for the gain it gives you all the way down the hill thru 6 to 7.
Again, the difference between racing and qualifying.
Maybe this comes down to the differences between front-engined and rear-engined cars, since Boris primarily races the former.
03-21-2007, 10:30 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
Again, I accede to those with more seat time there than I. And yes, I have also felt that camber.
I would only suggest that, when you have a relatively long downhill section from T5 to T7 following this part, the slight camber change in mid corner there is not as important to ultimate speed at the end as the trajectory one takes at the beginning.
I could be dead-wrong, however (an admission others here seem unwilling to make coughcough Bob coughcough
).
I would only suggest that, when you have a relatively long downhill section from T5 to T7 following this part, the slight camber change in mid corner there is not as important to ultimate speed at the end as the trajectory one takes at the beginning.
I could be dead-wrong, however (an admission others here seem unwilling to make coughcough Bob coughcough
).
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 03-21-2007 at 10:46 AM.
03-21-2007, 10:36 AM
#33
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
His point was that, in the race, there is plenty of grip on the tight line, and it can be fast. But if you have clear track or you are in qualifying and are looking for places to shave several tenths, you want to take the wider approach there specifically for the gain it gives you all the way down the hill thru 6 to 7.
Again, the difference between racing and qualifying.
Maybe this comes down to the differences between front-engined and rear-engined cars, since Boris primarily races the former.
Again, the difference between racing and qualifying.
Maybe this comes down to the differences between front-engined and rear-engined cars, since Boris primarily races the former.
.
03-21-2007, 10:39 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by 38D
But between David & Boris, I'll belive the guy with more teeth .
.
This is good data. I have learned something new here. I found in our race there that the inside line definitely worked well for me, and allowed me to not get chopped from the right. Hell, everybody tried to take it. But I also noticed that, when I got passed by a GS car, and they had relatively clear track ahead of them there, they would take the wider line.
Interesting. Good discussion.
03-21-2007, 10:58 AM
#35
Rennlist
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Part of this discussion deals with the particular nature of the track camber at the Glen and how it affects lines. Another part yet unmentioned has to do with the handling/setup of the car. My GT3 was fairly tail-happy and as a result, needed wider lines to allow me to apex and exit under full throttle. If you will note, I was very early on the gas in most turns, even with 400 hp. I found, especially in T7 and T9, that I would lose the back of the car if I tried for that tight entrance, and my exit speed would be much slower. The RSA handles differently, and with less power, less oversteer and more grip can work that tighter entrance.
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
03-21-2007, 11:03 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
That is an excellent point, Larry. One other relevant point that I just recalled: Boris LOVES a loose car. He loves oversteer. So it is likely that the setup he prefers predicates his line in places like T5, and thus what lessons he gave me.
Smooches to Bob, who seems a bit uptight.
Smooches to Bob, who seems a bit uptight.
03-21-2007, 11:40 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
As an addendum, I just found my notes from my conversation with Boris: he did suggest taking a relatively tight line in T7 & T9, which really worked well for me, too.
03-21-2007, 12:11 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
For anyone interested, here is a transcript of my handwritten notes from my conversation with him:
T1: brake between 300 & 200; double downshift 5-4-3; back to power at turn in; use apex curb more than track out curb due to off camber on the latter
Esses: flat; 3-4-5 gear; beware unpainted edge curbs; flow car; look way ahead here to place car
Bus stop: 5-4 only; slight trail brake & back to power; use curbs 1,3, and 4, but not curb 2; exit in big arc towards track left
T5: enter wide from left unless defending; touch & release apex; try to straighten it as much as possible for launch down hill; use all track out
T6: LFB and go; faster than it looks; folks will overslow here; use all of track out
T7: 4-3; enter tight; use grip on patch & inside due to camber; use all of track out; under-brake since hill & camber will slow car
T8: 4-3; faster than it looks; minimize braking; carry speed & turn in slightly early; very grippy; easy place to pass as many folks overslow here
T9: 4-3; bad camber; mid-late apex if possible; may have to defend here
T10; faster than it looks--no brakes; off camber on track out curb; WOT
T11: slight LFB if needed; use all of pit in area; WOT all the way thru; use all of track out
T1: brake between 300 & 200; double downshift 5-4-3; back to power at turn in; use apex curb more than track out curb due to off camber on the latter
Esses: flat; 3-4-5 gear; beware unpainted edge curbs; flow car; look way ahead here to place car
Bus stop: 5-4 only; slight trail brake & back to power; use curbs 1,3, and 4, but not curb 2; exit in big arc towards track left
T5: enter wide from left unless defending; touch & release apex; try to straighten it as much as possible for launch down hill; use all track out
T6: LFB and go; faster than it looks; folks will overslow here; use all of track out
T7: 4-3; enter tight; use grip on patch & inside due to camber; use all of track out; under-brake since hill & camber will slow car
T8: 4-3; faster than it looks; minimize braking; carry speed & turn in slightly early; very grippy; easy place to pass as many folks overslow here
T9: 4-3; bad camber; mid-late apex if possible; may have to defend here
T10; faster than it looks--no brakes; off camber on track out curb; WOT
T11: slight LFB if needed; use all of pit in area; WOT all the way thru; use all of track out