Benton

I think too many people get caught up in what is "right." Do I skip gears, or do it sequentially? As long as the car is braking at the threshold and you are in the correct gear before turn-in with the clutch out, it doesn't really matter besides the mechanical aspects (synchro wear, etc.). Some people skip, some people do it sequentially with the clutch every time, and some people row through the gears while keeping the clutch disengaged.

StanSoph

Thanks Red. I am always trying to learn; either cars and driving or anything I set my compulsive mind to. I see what you are saying as far as the subjective nature of the time before turn in. As long as the fundementals are solid, it doesn't matter. I am still on the fundementals, but always looking forward. Thanks for the prompt reply.JMac.

jrgordonsenior

The Laws of Primacy. It's how you were taught or first learned to drive. I think it's instinctive and you always sort of know which gear you're in without having to choose or think about it. I agree on that video he probably could have skipped a gear or two, but he did what came naturally to him allowing him to concentrate on the more important stuff like braking, turn-in, and track-out.
Additionally, if you missed a downshift and went from say 5th to 1st, or 6th to 2nd, you would probably have some expensive mechanical repairs not to mention the likely possibility of losing car control.

Matt Marks

I think that some of the debate on skip shifting focuses more on the capabilities of the gearbox than on the technique of the driver.

If your box can tolerate a 5-2 downshift, then you can lend more of your mental "friction circle" to braking and turn in. If your's can't, then you need to work your way down the box or at least partially down the box.

My car is much happer going 5-3-2 than a direct 5-2 downshift. Though, during the heel to process on the 5-3-2, I often blip the throttle as I shift into 3rd, but don't bother with letting the clutch out, and then re-blip for 2nd as I let out the clutch. It helps the synchros get everything matched up and keeps my box and clutch much much happer. ;-)

Larry Herman

Amen to that, brother. I must be a broken record here, but especially to you newbies, concentrate on your braking first, then drop down to the gear that you need just before you end your braking. It is easier on your car, and easier on your mind.

RedlineMan

If you can't H&T... DON'T. Practice it at home. Simply do as Larry said and shift before turn in, after braking. This is not the fast way through a corner, but so what? You are learning cornering geometry, not trying to blow your clutch or gearbox out.

Engine braking should not be a factor. If it is, then you probably have a train behind you. Get on the gas, Gomer!!!!!

As someone mentioned, not all boxes WILL shift as fast as Leh does it in sequence. Not everyone looks forward to rebuilding their gearbox every 40 hours either! Skip shifting WILL offer you far greater opportunity to get confused and blow it. Sequential shifting is much "safer" in this repsect. Skipping can be done effectively, but the faster you are going, and the more that is going on, the more risky it becomes.

StanSoph

Thanks RedLineMan, This goes back to the getting down of the fundementals. Your advice of sequential downshifting makes sense to eliminate confusion, gearbox damage and blown engine. I wouldn't mind rebuilding my box every 40 hours or so ; as long as it was someone elses dime. I'm a member(Rennlist) now I wonder when my signature will change?

joseph mitro

heel/toe shifting on the street seems different than the track because the brake pedal goes further down on the track in relation to the gas pedal, so my foot has to learn how to do it differently. it's actually quite easy in my M3, but difficult in the 944

Matt Marks

Joseph,

I have the same issue on my 944. I ended up getting some aftermarket pedals, and fabbed some 3/8 inch aluminum spacers to mount beneath the new pedals to better align them with the gas pedal at hard braking or when the brake pedal starts to get a little longer.

mroberts

At the NASA VIR event a couple of weekends ago, the instructor told us the opposite - basically hold the clutch in as long as you're braking to maximise your brakign force and reduce the wear on the brakes.
My counter-argument was:
1) I've been told exaclty the opposite before - justification was "stabilisation" of the car
2) as was previously stated - 10-20 hp of engine has little effect on several hundred hp of braking

As far as I understood, you were supposed to brake hard, heel and toe downshift at an appropriate point where you could match revs, and come back off the clutch ASAP.

Larry Herman

This makes absolutely no sense. What is he suggesting, to go for the brakes and the clutch at the same time? I do not see how holding the clutch in would maximize your braking force??? With my old Carrera, I used to downshift early, and spin the motor up to 6,000 to get some engine braking to help slow the car, as the Carrera brakes were really weak.

That is what I do. Brake first, and while under braking, downshift to the gear that I want to be in JUST BEFORE I get off the brakes. Some people like to row down through the gears. Those same people wonder how I can close so much on them under braking.

Matt Marks

Larry.

In that case, how do you execute a 5th to 2nd downshift at the end of front straight at a track like Summit Point or VIR where you're scrubbing off 100mph in 400 ft without munching your gearbox or zinging your engine?

Seems like you'd really have to jam it in 2nd pretty quick...

mroberts

Larry: Yup, clutch and brake at the same time, so the brakes aren't "fighting" the engine. (His theory, not mine).

I thought it was odd too - I'm pretty sure with zero throttle, your engine isn't contributing a whole lot.

PT

My 2 cents...
If you are after ultimate time savings, going from 6th directly to 2nd will probably be faster but you'll need much better time/skill coordination.
If you are learning how to drive or have some older cars where the tranny is a little more temperamental then rolling thru the gears is great - gives you more chance to practise heel-n-toe, easier to manage, and forces you to plan for the corner a little sooner.

TD in DC

Matt,

I do the same thing as Larry does. I always shift to neutral for a split second, so it doesn't really matter what gear you go to next: you always know which direction to go so there is little to no chance of a missed shift, and certainly no more than you would have if you shifted down through all the gears since you are shifting exactly the same way. It is faster and arguably less risky to go from 5 to 2 since you aren't rowing through the gears and making extra shifts. I think that going to neutral is so much safer than shifting directly between gears that I don't do direct shifts anymore. That said, you can do it so quickly that you wouldn't realize I have popped into neutral without watching carefully.

TD

EDIT: D'oh, I get the point of your question now. Oh well, I guess the track is not the only place I am slow