Why doesn't Porsche Participate in F1?
03-24-2002, 11:48 PM
#17
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Porsche did supply Engines to Footwork in 1991 and they were terrible. Also, Remember the TAG engines that McLaren used in the late 80's...well, those were actually made by Porsche and rebadged TAG. Those gave some results but the chassis was sooo good and they should have done much better (look what happened as soon as they went to Honda...they won everything). FAct is that Porsche makes a great sports car, but thats about it. They do not have to money to do the R&D of the big boys and I'm worried that you will start to see much better performing cars for much cheaper in the near future. We are already seeing this with the M3. That thing has more technology in it then the 2005 911 will have. Porsche is a raw sports car. Thats what we love about it, but the fact is that technology is becoming way too important and they can not keep up. Sometimes I thnk it would be for the better if Porsche was purchased by VW/Audi.
03-25-2002, 06:30 PM
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The Porsche powered Mclaren won just about everything in it's day. Winning 11 of 16 races in 84, 7 of 16 in 85, and 8 of 16 in 86. Of course they won the world championship all 3 years, and Alain Prost won 3 races in 87 which was the same number as world champ Picquet with a Honda motore even though almost no development had been done to the engine because of the anticipated switch in 88. Mclaren then swithed to Honda in 88 because then as now Porsche was wise enough to realize that F-1 did not have enough to offer Porsche in terms of cost/benefit.
While on the other hand Honda was willing not only to invest ungodly amounts of $ to devlopment, but they also were willing to pay Mclaren big $$$ which allowed Mclaren to develop a revolutionary chassis (MP4/4)and pointed the way to how future business in F-1 would be done (Mclaren PAID Porsche for the engines if you did not know) Mclaren Honda won ALL races in 88, but then the rest of the industry caught up and they won 10 of 16 in 89 (less than Porsche in 84) and only 6 in 90 and 7 in 91, then only 3 in 92 (compared to World Champ Mansell with 9). where they pulled out because they could no longer afford it! All in all I would say Porsche actually did better since they were paid and acheived virtually the same results!
Porsche could re-enter F-1 and be succesfull today, however the cost/benefit ratio would not be adequate for the sales Porsche is capable of generating, and that is the real reason, same as it was in 1988 and in the 1960's.
While on the other hand Honda was willing not only to invest ungodly amounts of $ to devlopment, but they also were willing to pay Mclaren big $$$ which allowed Mclaren to develop a revolutionary chassis (MP4/4)and pointed the way to how future business in F-1 would be done (Mclaren PAID Porsche for the engines if you did not know) Mclaren Honda won ALL races in 88, but then the rest of the industry caught up and they won 10 of 16 in 89 (less than Porsche in 84) and only 6 in 90 and 7 in 91, then only 3 in 92 (compared to World Champ Mansell with 9). where they pulled out because they could no longer afford it! All in all I would say Porsche actually did better since they were paid and acheived virtually the same results!
Porsche could re-enter F-1 and be succesfull today, however the cost/benefit ratio would not be adequate for the sales Porsche is capable of generating, and that is the real reason, same as it was in 1988 and in the 1960's.
03-26-2002, 01:55 AM
#20
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Astute analysis. Porsche can get back to F1 w/ a Big Partner (Rothhman's-type) sponser deal to put them on par w/ the entrenched circus players. Cost what? : $300M dev. program, $250M /yr... High risk, possible to get championship in 3rd or 4th. Who wants to win Drivers & Makes w/ Porsche for $1B?
04-04-2002, 11:56 PM
#21
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My understanding of the Ferrari F1 race budget and it's drivers contracts were that Shell (and other sponsors) came up with the bulk of Schumachers salary. One of Ferrari of Washington owners told me this a few years back.
K
K
04-05-2002, 02:15 AM
#22
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[quote]Originally posted by Kaz:
<strong>My understanding of the Ferrari F1 race budget and it's drivers contracts were that Shell (and other sponsors) came up with the bulk of Schumachers salary. One of Ferrari of Washington owners told me this a few years back.
K</strong><hr></blockquote>
Marlboro pays the driver salaries at Ferrari.
<strong>My understanding of the Ferrari F1 race budget and it's drivers contracts were that Shell (and other sponsors) came up with the bulk of Schumachers salary. One of Ferrari of Washington owners told me this a few years back.
K</strong><hr></blockquote>
Marlboro pays the driver salaries at Ferrari.
04-05-2002, 07:01 PM
#23
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Geo
[quote] Bingo. I may **** off the faithful here, but they slinked away from their last F1 effort and from the Champ Car effort - even after landing Fosters as their primary sponsor after putting an ad in the WSJ looking for a sponsor. They land the sponsor and leave a year later. Pretty shabby.<hr></blockquote>
Actually Porsche's CART effort of the late 80s /early 90s wasn't a disaster.
Their own chassis was a failure, but when they switched to a March, the program took off.
After cutting their teeth the first year, they were very competitive especially in the second half of the second year, ( with Fabi and Andretti) , with a couple of poles and a win at Mid-Ohio. As I recall, they finished second in points.
I believe the following year, they were expecting big results and at the last minute CART changed the rules, basically making Porsche uncompetitive. Not the last time that's happened to Porsche.
Mike in Chi
[quote] Bingo. I may **** off the faithful here, but they slinked away from their last F1 effort and from the Champ Car effort - even after landing Fosters as their primary sponsor after putting an ad in the WSJ looking for a sponsor. They land the sponsor and leave a year later. Pretty shabby.<hr></blockquote>
Actually Porsche's CART effort of the late 80s /early 90s wasn't a disaster.
Their own chassis was a failure, but when they switched to a March, the program took off.
After cutting their teeth the first year, they were very competitive especially in the second half of the second year, ( with Fabi and Andretti) , with a couple of poles and a win at Mid-Ohio. As I recall, they finished second in points.
I believe the following year, they were expecting big results and at the last minute CART changed the rules, basically making Porsche uncompetitive. Not the last time that's happened to Porsche.
Mike in Chi
04-11-2002, 01:36 AM
#25
Race Car
Did anyone see the Luca Demontizimelo (sp.?) interview last year when asked if Ferrari spend 200 million...?
He squirmed out of the question by replying "if you say we spend 200m for the sake of arguement, then OK"
Danno, re: the Suv customer goal of Porsche current, Companies that compete for honors in F-1 like Renault (LeCar) and IMO, Mercedes, target audience is even further from F-1 results than Porsche's would be.
Glenn, the 5.0 liter GT engine is 2.0 liters too large of displacement for current F-1 regulations, and being they're currently trying to slow them via tire grooves and such, I don't expect the displacement to increase.
Porsche have in the past worked miracles using engines for multiple purposes however, and i wouldn't put it past them.
I visit F-1 sites daily and there was a recent rumor concerning Porsche's return, through VW, or Possibly a Porsche designed engine rebadged as Buggati, owned by VW group.
I hope for race fans sake, the GT 5.0 ltr V10 is destined for a full frontal assault on the overall win at LeMans next year.....
Cheers
He squirmed out of the question by replying "if you say we spend 200m for the sake of arguement, then OK"
Danno, re: the Suv customer goal of Porsche current, Companies that compete for honors in F-1 like Renault (LeCar) and IMO, Mercedes, target audience is even further from F-1 results than Porsche's would be.
Glenn, the 5.0 liter GT engine is 2.0 liters too large of displacement for current F-1 regulations, and being they're currently trying to slow them via tire grooves and such, I don't expect the displacement to increase.
Porsche have in the past worked miracles using engines for multiple purposes however, and i wouldn't put it past them.
I visit F-1 sites daily and there was a recent rumor concerning Porsche's return, through VW, or Possibly a Porsche designed engine rebadged as Buggati, owned by VW group.
I hope for race fans sake, the GT 5.0 ltr V10 is destined for a full frontal assault on the overall win at LeMans next year.....
Cheers
04-29-2002, 10:02 PM
#26
Formula-One racing today is nearly a business unto itself, with little direct link to road car design and production, or a clear national representation. Porsche (the roadcar manufacturer) does not need to get involved to promote, develop or sell their road cars.
Porsche left F-1 (when it was more of a sport of nations) in the sixties, and their reputation was neither diminished nor elevated from it. In fact it was the repeated succesful performance of their sports cars (both racing and road-when that distinction became needed) that made (and continues to make) their reupation and legend.
However, Porsche (the engineering firm) will produce an engine for any paying customer, as McLaren, and more recently Harley Davidson (V-Rod) will tell you.
Porsche left F-1 (when it was more of a sport of nations) in the sixties, and their reputation was neither diminished nor elevated from it. In fact it was the repeated succesful performance of their sports cars (both racing and road-when that distinction became needed) that made (and continues to make) their reupation and legend.
However, Porsche (the engineering firm) will produce an engine for any paying customer, as McLaren, and more recently Harley Davidson (V-Rod) will tell you.
