flatsics

Pour some water on your driveway
Pour some 50/50 mix on your driveway

Run as fast as you can and try to come to a complete stop on each--then tell me there is almost no difference.

racer

For comparison, what does a club like BMW or MB do? All those cars are watercooled. I think its mostly the "911" crowd that likes to feel "superior" by saying all they dump on the track is oil (mmm 12 quarts of oil isn't exactly "not slippery" ) (for those who missed it, there is sarcasm above)

As an advanced driver who now has a watercooled car, I don't want to be bothered changing over coolant/water for DE events. Racing? sure.. dedicated car and all. But many who DE still street drive and need the car to be ready for "any" use that may come up.

jford

Who cares if a BMW spins and goes off track. Kidding of course.

Racer...the thing with oil is that there is no alternative. With coolant there is. Also I would bet that there are far more instances of coolant being spewed on the track than oil. I have no data to back that up just experience.

I think some of the arguments against chaging out the fluid are valid but....so far (2 pages in) I would say I would very much support a ban on anti freeze in solo run groups.

What really is the diffenence between a club race and a DE when it comes to driver and car safety? Why would one be more likely to crash in antifreeze in a race than a DE?
So club racers are protected from this situation while DE drivers are not.

I don't really have an answer for those who may travel from a sub freezing climate to a warm DE however.

Gator_86_951

What is this freezing you talk about? My car is coolant and water-wetter year round.

Honestly, most of us spend more hours talking / bench racing than it would take to empty the coolant and put just water in there, and then back to street. I think I could change the coolant out on my car in about an hour at most. Since this is something most of us really really enjoy, that isn't a big price to pay if it was a requirement. How many hours do you work to pay for the event and the car build/mods?

Now that I think about it, I don't think it would be a horrible requirement. I saw a guy in an S4 at mid ohio almost wreck going into T1 because something went loose and got all over his tires.

I guess the larger concern is if you don't contain the anti-freese properly, in which case you will have loss and environmental concerns because it should be processed. Although it isn't a "green" sport so to speak anyways. I always try my best to not pollute when I work on my pile.

smlporsche

Interesting discussion now that I have a dedicated track only car.

Question for those of us that live in areas where it gets below freezing in the colder months. What do you do during that period?? Not go to the track?? Use AF?? Move to FL??

And during the winter "off season" if you do not have a climate controlled garage what do you do when you have to store your car for a few months?

racer

Technically, we know DE isn't racing.. however, cars are traveling at high speeds in close proximities so the two are very similar. I think this commonality is what lead to the recent Seatbelt/seat requirements for DE (following CR lead). But to me, DE is the place to go an enjoy your "street porsche". DE shouldn't become so prohibitive as racing. I don't need Hoosiers or Slicks for DE. I shouldn't need to trailer my car to a DE. I shouldn't have to compromise my "street" car for the track, unless I want to. In a few years this could be a moot point as the Insurance industry is slowly limiting its policy holders from DE enjoyment.

You still haven't answered how to handle those areas that have "cold" nights and warm days at the track. So, there is at least ONE reason not to require no AF.

The only reason I mentioned BMW or MB clubs is because I am sure they have this problem. I wonder how they address it.

Brinkley

These are all interesting points. Has anyone heard of this one? AF provides an anti-corrosive benefit to the inside of your Porsche engine. I have a dedicated track car, live in South Florida and was told not to use just water. Based on the idea, you need some anti-corrosive benefit. Has anyone heard of this? Is it a ligitamate arguement?

J Silverman

There is a product called water wetter (made by redline) that provides lubrication to the system, and also adds some degree of corrosive protection.

Bri Bro

You can also purchase Water Pump Lubricant.

http://www.barsproducts.com/product.cfm?id=42

John Brown

No antifreeze in street driven cars is entirely unrealistic. The antifreeze raises the boiling point, lowers the freezing point, and importantly protects against corrosion and lubricates. Even in Fl a 50/50 mix is the best easiest fill. At a minimum no less than about 30%. Warranty is voided too with plain water.

Changing the coolant frequently is non-trivial. For starters, what to do with the used fluid?

The reality is that even race cars sometimes are coerced into running some antifreeze. Here the race season starts with an too-early-in-the-year cold often freezing Feb event at VIR. If anyone really thinks all or even most of the cars changed over from the winter storage mix of antifreeze then you should start selling some of what you're smoking. Make a fortune.

Water wetter is great but it's not a replacement for antifreeze in a street car.