2002 BMW Factory GT Insider Info...
01-20-2002, 12:33 PM
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2002 BMW Factory GT Insider Info...
Hello guys,
I was at an open house at the PTG shop yesterday in Winchester VA. Tom Millner - team owner and factory Race Team Owner - gave about a 30 minute talk. It was interesting to say the least.
He is expecting to make a formal announcement this week. Here is what I learned:
1. BMW will NOT race in any GT3 class next year as a factory team. This means both PTG and Schnitzer will not race the BMW M3 V8s next year in any series in the US or the world. You will see some privateers - especially in the Grand Am - racing their V8 M3s, but they are customer cars of PTG and are the cars with the M5 V8. These cars will be strictly privateers with no factory support whatsoever.
2. They are going to spend this year testing and trying to figure out how to fit the new inline 6 into the racing body. This will be a major development effort. I saw one new body with a mock up of the motor on jack stands trying to fit it in the engine bay.
3. BMW AG (Schnitzer Team) will be racing some cars in the European 2.0 liter touring car series. These are like the BTCC - with BMW 318s etc...
4. BMW USA and BMW AG made this decesion because they were not willing to reduce the restrictors 2 additional mms, and adding 120 kg of weight.
5. He said it was never an option to race in the GTS class against the vipers and the vettes because they would be racing against 7 and 8 liter motors and there is now way it would have been competitive.
In closing, let me say that I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously Porsche got what it wanted, but at what expense? There will now be only one car running in the ALMS GT3 class - it will appear as a cup car series. No one except us here in Rennlist really know the difference between the cup cars and the RS cars, so this is going to cause some confusion for the casual road racing fans. And road racing needs as many new fans as they can get.
Looking forward, I think 2003 will be intersting with BMW back with a developed version of the new inline 6. In closing, let me say that the pic of the motor on the dyno was an endurance version of the E36 M3 (previous version) and it pulled 435 hp and 320 hp.
I am not sure why they could not have continued the development of the new Inline 6 and been competitive last year? Seems they exploited a loophole in the rules and it ended up hurting them in the long run.
Let me know if you have any questions.
E. J.
I was at an open house at the PTG shop yesterday in Winchester VA. Tom Millner - team owner and factory Race Team Owner - gave about a 30 minute talk. It was interesting to say the least.
He is expecting to make a formal announcement this week. Here is what I learned:
1. BMW will NOT race in any GT3 class next year as a factory team. This means both PTG and Schnitzer will not race the BMW M3 V8s next year in any series in the US or the world. You will see some privateers - especially in the Grand Am - racing their V8 M3s, but they are customer cars of PTG and are the cars with the M5 V8. These cars will be strictly privateers with no factory support whatsoever.
2. They are going to spend this year testing and trying to figure out how to fit the new inline 6 into the racing body. This will be a major development effort. I saw one new body with a mock up of the motor on jack stands trying to fit it in the engine bay.
3. BMW AG (Schnitzer Team) will be racing some cars in the European 2.0 liter touring car series. These are like the BTCC - with BMW 318s etc...
4. BMW USA and BMW AG made this decesion because they were not willing to reduce the restrictors 2 additional mms, and adding 120 kg of weight.
5. He said it was never an option to race in the GTS class against the vipers and the vettes because they would be racing against 7 and 8 liter motors and there is now way it would have been competitive.
In closing, let me say that I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously Porsche got what it wanted, but at what expense? There will now be only one car running in the ALMS GT3 class - it will appear as a cup car series. No one except us here in Rennlist really know the difference between the cup cars and the RS cars, so this is going to cause some confusion for the casual road racing fans. And road racing needs as many new fans as they can get.
Looking forward, I think 2003 will be intersting with BMW back with a developed version of the new inline 6. In closing, let me say that the pic of the motor on the dyno was an endurance version of the E36 M3 (previous version) and it pulled 435 hp and 320 hp.
I am not sure why they could not have continued the development of the new Inline 6 and been competitive last year? Seems they exploited a loophole in the rules and it ended up hurting them in the long run.Let me know if you have any questions.
E. J.
01-21-2002, 12:44 AM
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E.J.,
I agree that there should be more variety in the GT class. I don't agree that the variety should come in the form of a car that no one can get . BMW made it very clear that the V8 would not be available in the USA and would only be available at some later date for an exhorbitant price (I heard in the 400K range). I believe that the GT class should remain approchable by us mortals. In fact, my mechanic has a 2000 GT3- R that he club races with great success. If BMW made their cars available to folks who can "afford" them, I would be very happy.
On another note, how come they have to figure out how to fit the six into the racing body? That car was designed to fit that engine, correct? Also, how come BMW has lost so much of there engine development. They should easily be able to get more out of that six than they do now. Look at there records in the 70's. It's my feeling that BMW just isn't into this type of racing for the long haul, plus they have so much of their budget allocated to F1. Well, that's my 2cents..Maybe Panoz will get things shaped up so we get some local blood in the GT division!!!
JA
I agree that there should be more variety in the GT class. I don't agree that the variety should come in the form of a car that no one can get . BMW made it very clear that the V8 would not be available in the USA and would only be available at some later date for an exhorbitant price (I heard in the 400K range). I believe that the GT class should remain approchable by us mortals. In fact, my mechanic has a 2000 GT3- R that he club races with great success. If BMW made their cars available to folks who can "afford" them, I would be very happy.
On another note, how come they have to figure out how to fit the six into the racing body? That car was designed to fit that engine, correct? Also, how come BMW has lost so much of there engine development. They should easily be able to get more out of that six than they do now. Look at there records in the 70's. It's my feeling that BMW just isn't into this type of racing for the long haul, plus they have so much of their budget allocated to F1. Well, that's my 2cents..Maybe Panoz will get things shaped up so we get some local blood in the GT division!!!
JA
01-22-2002, 02:44 AM
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Burning Brakes
Originally posted by E. J.:
<STRONG>Seems they exploited a loophole in the rules and it ended up hurting them in the long run.</STRONG>
<STRONG>Seems they exploited a loophole in the rules and it ended up hurting them in the long run.</STRONG>
01-22-2002, 06:01 PM
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EJ
How about that F1 GTR? That was such a great tour. I'm really glad I fought through the snow to be there. It really is a shame that BMW can't play the game as well as Porsche, because if anyone can exploit a rule Porsche can, it would have made for an interesting series this year.
By the way I was the one with the red S2 he asked to be escorted from the property. I just had to drive a Porsche to a BMW tour. Call me trouble maker.
How about that F1 GTR? That was such a great tour. I'm really glad I fought through the snow to be there. It really is a shame that BMW can't play the game as well as Porsche, because if anyone can exploit a rule Porsche can, it would have made for an interesting series this year.
By the way I was the one with the red S2 he asked to be escorted from the property. I just had to drive a Porsche to a BMW tour. Call me trouble maker.
02-01-2002, 11:20 PM
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> 2003 will be intersting with BMW back with a developed version of the new inline 6.
> In closing, let me say that the pic of the motor on the dyno was an endurance
> version of the E36 M3 (previous version) and it pulled 435 hp and 320 hp.
> I am not sure why they could not have continued the development of the new
> Inline 6 and been competitive last year?
This is an interesting discussion, as I am sure that - like me - many of Rennlist's membership count ourselves as fans of cars from both Porsche and BMW. To me, the M3 GTR smacks of "loopholing" to the worst degree. Indeed, was one of my favourite Porsches, the 917, a "loophole" car? Of course, but the GTR seems so outside the spirit of the GT class, that it was unsportsmanlike.
As an owner - and fan - of the E36 (up to 1999) M3, I too wonder why BMW didn't just continue with its development, rather than stuffing an M5 engine under the M3's hood. With some tuning, my M3's engine can return nearly identical hp and torque figures to the V8, and would have been within the spirit of the rules.
Why did BMW go the other route? Because, like Audi with its prototype programme, it's the sure thing. As it sat, no one could compete with the M3s, and once developed, taking the title was a cakewalk.
The problem is, as a racing fan, this is slightly more interesting than the F1 parade. Sport car racing has got to be close, it's got to the exciting, and it's got to be fair. A field of Porsches at least provides a handful of guys in basically similar cars who can go at it wheel-to-wheel. If someone else is trundling off into the distance with a near GTS-spec car, it defeats the purpose for everyone else.
BMW, come back to the ALMS with a proper GT-spec car. Bring Hans Stuck and your other great drivers, and give us a show we'll never forget against Porsche. That way, I can be proud of both my 911, and my M3.
Karl Thomson
Toronto, Canada
> In closing, let me say that the pic of the motor on the dyno was an endurance
> version of the E36 M3 (previous version) and it pulled 435 hp and 320 hp.
> I am not sure why they could not have continued the development of the new
> Inline 6 and been competitive last year?
This is an interesting discussion, as I am sure that - like me - many of Rennlist's membership count ourselves as fans of cars from both Porsche and BMW. To me, the M3 GTR smacks of "loopholing" to the worst degree. Indeed, was one of my favourite Porsches, the 917, a "loophole" car? Of course, but the GTR seems so outside the spirit of the GT class, that it was unsportsmanlike.
As an owner - and fan - of the E36 (up to 1999) M3, I too wonder why BMW didn't just continue with its development, rather than stuffing an M5 engine under the M3's hood. With some tuning, my M3's engine can return nearly identical hp and torque figures to the V8, and would have been within the spirit of the rules.
Why did BMW go the other route? Because, like Audi with its prototype programme, it's the sure thing. As it sat, no one could compete with the M3s, and once developed, taking the title was a cakewalk.
The problem is, as a racing fan, this is slightly more interesting than the F1 parade. Sport car racing has got to be close, it's got to the exciting, and it's got to be fair. A field of Porsches at least provides a handful of guys in basically similar cars who can go at it wheel-to-wheel. If someone else is trundling off into the distance with a near GTS-spec car, it defeats the purpose for everyone else.
BMW, come back to the ALMS with a proper GT-spec car. Bring Hans Stuck and your other great drivers, and give us a show we'll never forget against Porsche. That way, I can be proud of both my 911, and my M3.
Karl Thomson
Toronto, Canada
02-18-2002, 10:11 PM
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It was the BMW Motorspot chief who said in the oficial Pree in Austria: We do not want to develop the 6 Cylinder engine as it will be not competitive against the Porsche.
Thas why they chosed the easy way. Take a bigger engine ;-)
If teh V8 engine is so good tehy shoold rac eit even with more weight or smaller restrictor. or race teh 6 Cylinder engine. But just back up because tehy are not sur ethat they can win? This is not fair for the BMW fans and for teh other race teams.
Konstantin
Thas why they chosed the easy way. Take a bigger engine ;-)
If teh V8 engine is so good tehy shoold rac eit even with more weight or smaller restrictor. or race teh 6 Cylinder engine. But just back up because tehy are not sur ethat they can win? This is not fair for the BMW fans and for teh other race teams.
Konstantin
02-20-2002, 02:23 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
They are at a 400cc disadvantage with their 6 cylinder, so they know they can't be competitive with it. The new rules make the v8 uncompetitive too. So why should they waste their resources and effort just to lose? To showcase the M3 in the U.S.? There's already a 1 year or more waiting list. Better to concentrate on a more prestigious series like F1. Will Porsche ever step up to the plate?
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02-20-2002, 01:45 PM
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<<They are at a 400cc disadvantage with their 6 cylinder, so they know they can't be competitive with it.>>
According to the drivers, many of the improvements that were made with the GTR were chassis-related. If the 6 can be made to fit in the revised GTR chassis, the car could still be a contender.
The problem for 2002 is that the GTR chassis was homologated with the 8, not with the 6, so it's not as simple as retrofitting the 6 and taking it straight to the track. There would still be an approval process.
Milner is apparently confident enough in the combination of I6 w/GTR chassis that he working on it for the future (2002/2003?). ...regardless of BMW's plans. (I saw this mentioned on dailysportscar.com a couple weeks ago)
According to the drivers, many of the improvements that were made with the GTR were chassis-related. If the 6 can be made to fit in the revised GTR chassis, the car could still be a contender.
The problem for 2002 is that the GTR chassis was homologated with the 8, not with the 6, so it's not as simple as retrofitting the 6 and taking it straight to the track. There would still be an approval process.
Milner is apparently confident enough in the combination of I6 w/GTR chassis that he working on it for the future (2002/2003?). ...regardless of BMW's plans. (I saw this mentioned on dailysportscar.com a couple weeks ago)
