Veloce Raptor

bwhahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!1

DanS911

My .02
PCA DE is the perfect place to learn how to drive your race car.
It is also the perfect place to just get out and enjoy driving your Porsche around the track for the weekend.
The rules (and we take them seriously) keep things tidy.
If you are out there in your street car no one is going to be rubbin' on you fighting for an apex.
If you have just bought some race car.......where are you supposed to learn how to drive it?
DE organizers know who they are dealing with when they get student drivers in the above parameters and everywhere in between.

Rich, no disrespect to the Supersolo program, you know I am a fan and a committee member but I think it misses the mark for this post.

Veloce Raptor

Yes, you get 4, and they all look like this:

DarkSideDE

THANKS GUYS FOR THE HIJACKING

forklift

I think this is what Mark/Sunday was getting at.

I don't mind joking around some, but there are threads with good information seem to go down fast. Just as in life there is a time to joke around and there are serious (but still fun) topics. As much as I still like Beavis and Butthead at the age of 37, a thread about PCA racing school hijacked to pictures of pimps is a disservice to those who are interested at the original topic.

It's all subjective, but threads related to serious questions and topics should stay that way, or close to it, although straying to related topics like normal conversation is fine (like brake pads to trail braking etc). Threads that are obviously lighthearted would be better targets for pimp hijacks (like Boston's video thread w/ the dentist video)…all IMO.

Gary R.

Agree Jim.. enough is enough.

DarkSideDE

Just wanted to clarify a few points. (And by the way - I am a PCA DE organizer.)

PCA decided a few years back to have a more consistent Driver Ed program throughout the United States. One thing the committee came across was how differently each region ran their DEs, and how the regions defined what a DE was. The DEs were then given "minimum requirements." Sobeit.

However, with the new by January '08, mandatory harness regulation - things are changing. DEs will not be DEs - but as Gold Coast thinks - a place for racers to learn how to race.

DEs are there to teach you how to control your car - the end. That is why if something happens at a DE - some insurance companies may pay. As soon as "racing" is introduced - not one of any of our regular carriers will touch us.

PCA's explanation of why more regulations has to do with the incident at Watkins Glen. A man lost his life. The insurance for PCA says, "his harnesses were loose and his helmet was off his head."

Did PCA lose sight of all the other things that took place that day?

When it happened, we called Watkins Glen and learned that their regular corner workers and paramedics, both groups were at seminars - they had stand ins for the DE. True, they used their weekday workers that weren't use to working weekends -- still in full knowledge of what to do, but not the regulars.

The person who lost his life was in Green with known health issues. It was Sunday. His instructor let him be a solo. BIG TIME NO-NO. I know of one other region that has this practice - ours doesn't. Our chief instructor has made it quite clear -- If a person is good enough in your opinion, talk to the Chief Instructor and get the person to move up to the next level - but solo - NEVER in green. It is for the safety of all - not the fun of one.

Oh wait, that was another problem at Watkins Glen that day. The Chief Instructor was there in the morning and left by lunchtime. (True, he left a former CI in charge upon leaving the track, but another wasn't the weekend norm.)

If I was the corner worker that day at Turn 6, I think I'd be having nightmares. They watched the car go straight ... straight... straight - no turn, no brake lights - and CRASH. And when the paramedics reached him, the helmet had moved 1/4 of the way off his head.

To get back to the point of my own thread...
We do our DEs in T-Shirts and Shorts. Will we be told in another year to go back to Fire Resistant clothing - or wait RACING SUITS? In another year down the road, are we to have full cages in our car?

The point is - we run a Driver Education. We do NOT run a racing school. In all our literature we tell you flat out - leave your EGO home - there is NO wheel to wheel here.

And those that now know how to control their car by going through proven seat time at DEs - let them go to a Racing School and onward... PCA, in my opinion, should offer one nationwide - like a Skip Barber, a Panoz school, or their own Barber school -- a 3-day intensive. Make sure those guys have all their needed mandatory regulations - and PCA can enjoy overseeing and micromanaging every angle of it.

*******
Still on the topic - sort of...
Meanwhile, I was in shock when IMPA was at the Poconos. NO HELMETS needed on the full-blown raceway. Or at the BMW driving experience in SC - again, NO HELMETS - have fun kiddies. That is truly the minimum for any driving event....

Thanks for letting me speak. And to the BMW guy - yes I'm Porsche, but guess what, I wear my Sandlapper's hat proudly (even at Porsche events!)

Veloce Raptor

How has this thread "gone down fast"? Is there not valuable information shared here? So what that there is also kidding around?

Sheesh...

Larry Herman

Heron2001, please do not take this as bashing, but you are wrong about what happened at Watkins Glen on so many counts, that I would have to write pages to rebut what you have said. Not about the Watkins Glen corner workers, but the inferences about how our club runs DEs and how we handle safety. Riesentoter runs one of the best programs around, from safety to driver training to instructor training. In fact, a lot of the PCA instructor training standards have come from our club. What happened at the Glen was a complete fluke, a perfect storm, and even so, we have tightened things up further to make a potential re-occurence even more remote.

If you want to discuss this further, first I want to know who you are, where you are from, and what your position is.

Veloce Raptor

Heron, I am not sure what upcoming PCA regulations will make DE's more like race schools. Down here (Texas), mentioning the word "racing" is verboten, and any student who asks about it is directly told that a DE is NOT a race school. While some advanced students regularly ask me & others about racing & racing "lines", our "company line" is that we do NOT discuss racing in any way/shape/form. We are free to explore alternate lines on track, but they are never "racing" lines.

No one here confuses DE's with race schools.

John Brown

With an emphatic second!

The corner worker ... nightmares? Huh?

Mike in Chi

FWIW

As a mentor, I attended the rookie orientation session Thursday evening.

The stewards conducting the meeting refered to the nearly two hour session that evening and the practice sesions and mandatory Fun Race on Friday as PCA's "school" portion of the rookie weekend.
On Saturday, at the driver's meeting, the rookie candidates were given certificates for successfully completing the program, and welcomed to club racing.

I always thought PCA DEs were intended to be a way to develop skills, comfort and awareness on track, but were never intended to be Race School.

Manny Alban

Just a slight nit. It's not a mandatory harness regulation. It's a standard that applies to THOSE who use harnesses. PCA is not mandating you to go out and buy a harness to do a PCA DE.

Veloce Raptor

Thank you, Manny.

Bull

Our Region could not make it more clear that DEs are not racing or practice for racing. Everything from large, bold statements on entry forms, accetance forms and written instructions to daily Drivers' Meetings and workshops make a clear distinction between DEs and racing. However we have a very serious approach to safety and the equipment available to increase the safety of DE participants. While we have few requirements, we strongly recommend that DE participants obtain and utilize proper safety equipment, AND dress properly with long pants and long sleeves of cotton as a minimum. Shorts and T-shirts????? They are for golf carts, not cars on tracks! Adding safety equipment doesn'y suddenly make someone a racer, nor does it suddenly make a DE have anything to do with racing. It is all about attitude and enforcement of the DE rules and environment.

I don't see the need for a PCA Racing School. There are many schools available for those who wish to attend today.