Hans alternative ?
11-25-2002, 05:40 PM
#1
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Hans alternative ?
Just got a Racer's Warehouse catalogue today...they are marketing a new helmet restraint system called "SRS-1". It's very similiar to the HANS device and cost $199. Did anyone else see this?!? What do you think?
11-25-2002, 06:52 PM
#3
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I think you get what you pay for.
It is not obvious to me how this works (or even if it really works).
It can only be used if you also purchase one of their helmets.
My life is worth the price of a HANS, that is what I use. Some of the other devices have allowed injuries that the HANS would prevent. Many users of the other systems are switching to HANS after crashes. I've not encountered a HANS user who is swithing after a crash.
It is not obvious to me how this works (or even if it really works).
It can only be used if you also purchase one of their helmets.
My life is worth the price of a HANS, that is what I use. Some of the other devices have allowed injuries that the HANS would prevent. Many users of the other systems are switching to HANS after crashes. I've not encountered a HANS user who is swithing after a crash.
11-25-2002, 08:27 PM
#4
Race Car
I think you need to do a lot of research on a decision like this. After getting my head flopped around like a crash test dummy at Laguna, I started reading. My choice was not the HANS (although I think it's the equal of any other product out there), but the <a href="http://isaacdirect.com/" target="_blank">ISAAC</a>, which ties into the harness (and I'll admit: it also costs a lot less than the HANS).
There are pros and cons to all of the different devices. ALL of them are annoying to wear. But then again, what's your life worth?
<a href="http://isaacdirect.com/" target="_blank">
</a>
There are pros and cons to all of the different devices. ALL of them are annoying to wear. But then again, what's your life worth?
<a href="http://isaacdirect.com/" target="_blank">
</a>
11-25-2002, 08:27 PM
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I was involved in a crash last week (riding as a pssenger, experienced pro racer driving). Impact the tirewall nearly side ways going backwards (so driver's side was all dented up). My neck is pretty sore. When I race I'm definetely thinking about some head restraint. Any is better than none, but HANS is probably the best. I also like the shock absorber one. The name scapes me at the moment.
11-25-2002, 08:34 PM
#6
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[quote]Originally posted by JackOlsen:
<strong>I think you need to do a lot of research on a decision like this. After getting my head flopped around like a crash test dummy at Laguna, I started reading. My choice was not the HANS (although I think it's the equal of any other product out there), but the <a href="http://isaacdirect.com/" target="_blank">ISAAC</a>, which ties into the harness (and I'll admit: it also costs a lot less than the HANS).
There are pros and cons to all of the different devices. ALL of them are annoying to wear. But then again, what's your life worth?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jack,
How does that thing work? Specifically, how does it attach to the seat belt such that it can't move and doesn't compromise the webbing. Also, how do you get out of it in a hurry? I could never figure that out from their web site info.
<strong>I think you need to do a lot of research on a decision like this. After getting my head flopped around like a crash test dummy at Laguna, I started reading. My choice was not the HANS (although I think it's the equal of any other product out there), but the <a href="http://isaacdirect.com/" target="_blank">ISAAC</a>, which ties into the harness (and I'll admit: it also costs a lot less than the HANS).
There are pros and cons to all of the different devices. ALL of them are annoying to wear. But then again, what's your life worth?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jack,
How does that thing work? Specifically, how does it attach to the seat belt such that it can't move and doesn't compromise the webbing. Also, how do you get out of it in a hurry? I could never figure that out from their web site info.
11-25-2002, 08:58 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Mark D - TT Alumni:
<strong>
Jack,
How does that thing work? Specifically, how does it attach to the seat belt such that it can't move and doesn't compromise the webbing. Also, how do you get out of it in a hurry? I could never figure that out from their web site info.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quick release pin on the upper part. The belt part I *think* it is free to move along the belt... since it is call the belt roller.
<strong>
Jack,
How does that thing work? Specifically, how does it attach to the seat belt such that it can't move and doesn't compromise the webbing. Also, how do you get out of it in a hurry? I could never figure that out from their web site info.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quick release pin on the upper part. The belt part I *think* it is free to move along the belt... since it is call the belt roller.
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11-26-2002, 01:58 AM
#9
Race Car
This is from footage of my crash at Laguna. At normal speed, you don't think you ever see my head. When you slow it down, you see how much movement took place. With enough speed, the effect is the same as coming to the end of the rope when you're hanged.
<a href="http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/Sequence-M.jpg" target="_blank">
</a>
(Click the image for a larger version.)
<a href="http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/Sequence-M.jpg" target="_blank">
</a>(Click the image for a larger version.)
11-26-2002, 11:33 AM
#10
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[quote]Originally posted by GhettoRacer:
[QB]
Quick release pin on the upper part. The belt part I *think* it is free to move along the belt... since it is call the belt roller.
<hr></blockquote>
In an emergency situation, those pins could become an issue. The HANS fits under the belt and the driver is free as soon as the harness is released.
I recently started to use the HANS device. The only time I notice it is when I am navigating through the paddock/pit areas.
[QB]
Quick release pin on the upper part. The belt part I *think* it is free to move along the belt... since it is call the belt roller.
<hr></blockquote>
In an emergency situation, those pins could become an issue. The HANS fits under the belt and the driver is free as soon as the harness is released.
I recently started to use the HANS device. The only time I notice it is when I am navigating through the paddock/pit areas.
11-27-2002, 09:47 AM
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FYI, the ISAAC device is now on sale through the end of the year, $200 off, puts it at $600 IIRC.
As usual, no connection, just a future customer. As a mechanical engineer, I like the idea of a shock-absorber based system vs. tethers. I'd think a HANS would be acceptable, certainly, but can't budget that one. Besides, I do feel this is superior.
As usual, no connection, just a future customer. As a mechanical engineer, I like the idea of a shock-absorber based system vs. tethers. I'd think a HANS would be acceptable, certainly, but can't budget that one. Besides, I do feel this is superior.
11-27-2002, 11:36 AM
#13
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[quote]Originally posted by 924RACR:
<strong>FYI, the ISAAC device is now on sale through the end of the year, $200 off, puts it at $600 IIRC.
As usual, no connection, just a future customer. As a mechanical engineer, I like the idea of a shock-absorber based system vs. tethers. I'd think a HANS would be acceptable, certainly, but can't budget that one. Besides, I do feel this is superior.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are two aspects of the ISAAC that bother me:
1. The slider - It appears to me that it relies on the interference between your shoulder and the seat belt to halt its forward slide. I have not seen any discusssion, so I may well be wrong. It that is how it works, then how can you (they) predict how far forward it slides? When it stops sliding, that seems to me it would tear up your shoulder. In a crash that presses you downward as well as forwards, that would remove some pressure from the shoulder belts and allow more slider travel. Can someone clarify this?
2. This pins REALLY distrub me. I just don't see how you can easily release them while you are in all your gear. They are too close to be able to see them and you would be fumbling while in your gloves. Add a fire and think that is a formula for disaster. I do not want anything that keeps me connected to the seat belts after I release them. Am I missing something about how this device works?
I am also a Mechanical Engineer and am surprised that you don't see the shock absorbing characteristics of both designs. The HANS has firm anchors between the helmet and the device - the device will deflect for shock absorbtion. In fact, they told me it is designed to fracture at about the pressure that would break your collarbone - saving you a fracture. The ISAAC is a loose connection at every point until the dampers are fully extended. In a multiple impact collision, the ISAAC could be at full extension for the second impact and would behave like the HANS assuming the slider is really working as intended.
There are certainly many solutions to most Engineering problems and they both may work. What bothers me is that I see some potential shortcomings in the ISAAC and they do not explain how it really works during an impact. The Hutchens has it's own problems - it stops forward motion of the head but does so with quite a bit of rotation. One user I know had a crash and broke his collarbone with his helmet while wearing that device. Certainly the lesser of two evils, but he is switching to a HANS.
<strong>FYI, the ISAAC device is now on sale through the end of the year, $200 off, puts it at $600 IIRC.
As usual, no connection, just a future customer. As a mechanical engineer, I like the idea of a shock-absorber based system vs. tethers. I'd think a HANS would be acceptable, certainly, but can't budget that one. Besides, I do feel this is superior.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are two aspects of the ISAAC that bother me:
1. The slider - It appears to me that it relies on the interference between your shoulder and the seat belt to halt its forward slide. I have not seen any discusssion, so I may well be wrong. It that is how it works, then how can you (they) predict how far forward it slides? When it stops sliding, that seems to me it would tear up your shoulder. In a crash that presses you downward as well as forwards, that would remove some pressure from the shoulder belts and allow more slider travel. Can someone clarify this?
2. This pins REALLY distrub me. I just don't see how you can easily release them while you are in all your gear. They are too close to be able to see them and you would be fumbling while in your gloves. Add a fire and think that is a formula for disaster. I do not want anything that keeps me connected to the seat belts after I release them. Am I missing something about how this device works?
I am also a Mechanical Engineer and am surprised that you don't see the shock absorbing characteristics of both designs. The HANS has firm anchors between the helmet and the device - the device will deflect for shock absorbtion. In fact, they told me it is designed to fracture at about the pressure that would break your collarbone - saving you a fracture. The ISAAC is a loose connection at every point until the dampers are fully extended. In a multiple impact collision, the ISAAC could be at full extension for the second impact and would behave like the HANS assuming the slider is really working as intended.
There are certainly many solutions to most Engineering problems and they both may work. What bothers me is that I see some potential shortcomings in the ISAAC and they do not explain how it really works during an impact. The Hutchens has it's own problems - it stops forward motion of the head but does so with quite a bit of rotation. One user I know had a crash and broke his collarbone with his helmet while wearing that device. Certainly the lesser of two evils, but he is switching to a HANS.
11-27-2002, 11:55 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Mark D - TT Alumni:
2. This pins REALLY distrub me. I just don't see how you can easily release them while you are in all your gear. They are too close to be able to see them and you would be fumbling while in your gloves. Add a fire and think that is a formula for disaster. I do not want anything that keeps me connected to the seat belts after I release them. Am I missing something about how this device works?
<hr></blockquote>
Glad I am not the only one that sees this recipe for disaster.
2. This pins REALLY distrub me. I just don't see how you can easily release them while you are in all your gear. They are too close to be able to see them and you would be fumbling while in your gloves. Add a fire and think that is a formula for disaster. I do not want anything that keeps me connected to the seat belts after I release them. Am I missing something about how this device works?
<hr></blockquote>
Glad I am not the only one that sees this recipe for disaster.
