M758

Personally I feel that the Kumho Victoracer is an excellent Autocross tire. I feel the MPSC and Toyo do not heat up fast enough.

Out on the track it is different.

... But if you want to be very fast at autocross and just have fun at DE then the Victoracer is good tire. I also have heard about Kumho chunking, but never have seen it. I ran 5 sets of Kumho always full tread to cord and never had one chunk. I run a 2450lbs 944 with 131RWHP.

I have also seen plenty of guys in Boxsters, Boxster S, 993, 993, run kumho's with not reported problems. Guys that run lots of DE and occasional Ax perfer MPSC, but I have never persoanly seen Kumho chunk at the track. That is even in 100F+ ambient air temps.

Remember to keep the pressures low 32-36 psi HOT.

I think the guys that chunk them run them at too high a pressure.

C Streit

Well I ran the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups this weekend and Gingerman. I'll tell you, they are going to make a GREAT -- flower garden in my back yard.

I run Wheel to wheel racing in an early 911 in a big-bore class generally filled with 'vettes and Mustangs.

I ran pressures all over the map to try and find something that worked. Hot pressures of 27, 29, 32, 34, and 36. THe closest I got to a decent lap time was when they were at 36 but they went away after 5 laps. THe rest of the time they were slippery as hell, gave NO feedback, and no warning when they let go. My normally docile car was all over the place and acting like I had wooden tires on the rear, and more like rudders on the front.

I worked my butt off and never could get them really hot. In fact, the BEST lap time I ran was a full second off what I run with the Kumhos V700's... ...and once it cooled down below 55 degrees I was running 3-4 seconds a lap slower than usual.

I tried adding some camber because they were not wearing right on the front, and softened the front sway bar, it got rid of some of the understeer, but then the rears couldn't keep up to the job and were letting go all over the place.

Frankly I was angry and fustrated with the tires. I went off 5 times in one weekend, more than my entire last season!!! Needless to say they are flatspotted and going into the dustbin.

I never had overheating problems with Kumhos and will be switching back asap.

I found myself wondering how so many people could think they are so great, and my only conclusion is that the heavier cars can get enough heat into them. My car is 2100 with fuel and driver...

one $800 lesson learned again, if it ain't broke (Kumhos) don't "fix" it (Michelins).

Chris

Ed Newman

I used the Ecsta's. I have always had 18's on my P-cars and the Victoracer was never an option.

N_Halbert

In our area, the Victoracer is the preferred of the two for AutoX. The Ecsta looks nice but doesn't seem to have the same grip.

My self I was debating going to the Victoracer from a Toyo RA-1 for cost but found Vilven (sp?) sells the RA for only a couple of dollars more than the Kumho.

So, now I'm split on MPSC's or RA-1's. The RA's have been good for about 2 dozen AutoX's and over a dozen track days not to mention to from events, about 7k miles total.

Skip Wolfe

N_Halbert,

Do you have any contact information regarding Vilven. I checked out the Toyo's at Tread Depot and they were about 40$ per tire.

Thanks

RJay

One question about the Hoosiers. Is there a problem flatspotting them if the car is sitting for a while? I've noted with the ecstas that if the cars sat for two weeks the tires seem out of round for a mile or tow but then come back into shape. As the Hoosiers are bias ply tires (right?) are they more troublesome in this respect? After checking sizing out it would appear that they may be my only alternative in 16" sizes.

JJayB

C Streit
Thank you for confirming my experience with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. I got flamed on 993tt board about 6 mos ago for dising the MPSC. My car is heavy 3340 with driver and gas and they still are hard to get hot. I ran 1.8 sec slower than Hoosiers and about a second slower than the Kumho's. What I didn't like was the sudden breakaway. I had two offs at Willow Springs, one in turn 8 at 130 and that gets your attention fast. My wife won't allow anymore landscaping with racetires, but the good news is I've snagged the new Pirelli Corsa's. Its as fast as the Hoosier. I've only had one session on them and it will be several weeks before my next event
before I will give it a full endorsement.

Cupcar

I have run the the Victoracers in autocross for the past couple of years and liked them in 225 and 255-17's on my 964 (2875 pounds with me in car, 8.5 and 10 inch wide Fikse's). They last around 6 events before going off too much to be competitive. I liked 36 to 38 psi pressures.

I have just tried the Ecstas in 235 and 275-17's for two autocrosses. I found the pressures that worked best for me are in the 34 to 36 (I tried 32 to 46 psi) psi range front and rear.

Both Victors and Ecstas were heat cycled and NOT shaved. Our autocross tracks are around a mile or better long and the times are in the 80 to 90 second range.

The Ecstas seem less consistent and more difficult to drive than the Victors with more edgy breakaway and more scatter in my times for a session than on the Victoracers. The Ecstas heat up quickly and seem best on my second lap. After 4 laps the tires have little ropes of melted rubber across them like you see on a Goodyear slick, something I have not noticed on the Victors. I think for that second lap though, when they are at their best, the time on the Ecstas is quicker than the Victors. The jury is still out as to what is best for me, next time though I think it will most likely be consistent Victors for me, although shaved Ecsta's are a thought.... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

C Streit

JJAYB,

I had the same experience with the sudden breakaway. Compared to my experience with the Kumhos, the MPSCs were very binary. There was grip, then, GONE. I had more offs that weekend that the entire last two seasons. A few people asked me if I was feeling well. *sheesh*

The kumhos on the other hand give a lot of warning, gentle reminders, firm taps on the shoulder, then a whack to the back of the head before they let go. I bought another set, MPSCs are in the basement untill I figure out what to do with them.

Carrera51

C Streit:
I wish I had an answer for why the Michelins didn't work on your car. I ran them for the first time last season on my Carrera and absolutely love them. Several 911 drivers I know have found the same results. A few 944 guys I know don't like them.

At the PCA Club Race at SP last fall I finally got the pressures dialed in. I run them with 3 psi more air in the rears and that seems to be the ticket (hot 36 rear,255-40-17; 33 front,225-45-17). They do go away if you get the hot pressures over 36 (at least on my car).

The problem I have discovered is that they need about two laps to heat up so I can't go wild on the first lap, like I can on Hoosiers. I accept that trade off because they last much longer than the Hoosiers and seem to get better with more heat cycles. They are like Hoosiers in that when they let go, its as you said, like a smack in the head.