waltk88

The car will be a daily driver and used for about 6 DE events a year. I'm thinking about a 944 Turbo S or M030 equipped Boxster S. I've already thought about the pricing, ownership, and daily driver aspects of both cars, so my questions are focused on the track ability of the cars. Which is easier to drive? Which is more rewarding? Which is quicker on the track in stock form (Willow Springs lap times)? Which has greater scope for handling improvements?

Glenn from Denver

At the risk of starting a flame war, I think the Boxster S in stock form is a faster car than the Turbo S. Both cars are well balanced and quick but the Boxster S has gobs of torque and no turbo lag to deal with.

The secret to driving the Boxster S quickly is taking more of a "carving" line through the turns. If you are a skier, you know what I mean.

Both cars have suspension upgrades available (albeit a bit more expensive for the Boxster).

The thing that the Turbo S has in it's favor is the ultimate power that can be gained relatively simply. There are many such parts available for the Turbo S but none for the Boxster S.

Vinny '98 3.8 C2S

They're both terrific cars, but I'd also chose the Boxter S. It's a terrific car for the track, and IMO more reliable than a 944 Turbo S, especially when the "crank up the boost" drug hits you, as it appears to hit all 944 turbo owners.

James Achard

I will go against the flow and pick the 944. For one, many regions don't allow a Boxter to run in DE without a full roll bar. I would also prefer a coupe anyway besides the issue of safety. If you are a taller person, you will want to make sure you can pass the "broomstick rule" if you go the boxter route. Otherwise, they are both great cars and have alot of potential on the track.

Cheers, James

M758

944 Turbo S (Two in fact)

Why simple... Cost!

Boxster S is nice, but pricy at $60k

You can get a Turbo S for $12k and put $5k in maintence & upgrades per year done by a fancy race shop and still come out cheaper.

The fact that you really only need about $10k for a nice car can set aside $1k a year for maintence makes the deal even better!

It is 95% as fast is great to drive.

You could even get two. One for the road and one for the track. In fact get regualr 944 for Turbo for $7k and drop the rest in suspension and chips and you will smoke a stock Boxster S on the track.

M758

BTW.. back in 88 a test was performed that showed a stock 944 Turbo S was 2 seconds a lap faster at Willow than a stock 88 930.

bet

I always thought of the 944's the 944S2 was the ultimate track car because of more torque with no turbo lag.

Greg Fishman

944 Turbo S. If nothing else it is cheaper and more racing oriented parts are available.

RSAErick

From what I've seen in my limited track experience, the Turbo S can be VERY fast.

Mike in Chi

Brian

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> I always thought of the 944's the 944S2 was the ultimate track car because of more torque with no turbo lag.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I like the way you think.

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Greg Fishman

RSA ERick,
You are very correct. Even with a stock engine they can be awesome. Buy a 944 Turbo Cup car and you have a car that is lighter and has more hp than a 993. Very impressive.

Z-man

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by bet:
<strong>I always thought of the 944's the 944S2 was the ultimate track car because of more torque with no turbo lag.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">It depends on the track. For example, on a track with long straights, like Watkins Glen, a 944Turbo has enough room to stretch it's legs, and can be faster around the track than a 944S2. However, on a short, 'technical' track, like Lime Rock Park, a well driven 944S2 may be a bit faster than a 951.

So, here's my $0.42 on the matter:
1. 986S has more modern technology, and probably a little better low end grunt.
2. 986S is more nimble due to the mid-engine setup.
3. 951S is probably more tunable, and can put out significantly more hp with relatively few, mid-priced mods.
4. Once all maintenance has been applied to a 951, it is probably on par with the 986S's reliability.

So, which is better? Again, I think it depends on the track. If there's room (ie long straights), a slightly modified 951S can be faster. If the track is more technical, and there's not a lot of opportunity for boost, then the 986S would have the advantage.

Again, this is just IMHO,
-Zoltan.

Mike in Chi

Kim that $5000 a year, not a weekend.

M758

Even you spend $5k per year which is HIGHLY unlikely!! It would STILL BE Cheaper than a Boxster S just due to the initial cost alone..

That was my point. In my 6 years of 944 Turbo S ownership I have YET to spend more than $3k on maintence in total including new tires. Although I race a 944 NA now. I used to autocross and track the 951 quite often.

Personally I feel the 944 Turbo is a performance value that cannot be beat!

ninefiveone

I've spent $500 on repairs in 3 years of 944T street and track usage. About 45 track days in those three years.

I've spent $3170 on wear and tear in 3 Years. That includes a new set of tires every year.

I've spent $2896 dollars on performance modifications including safety equipment.

Clearly I think $5000/year is on the high side. I'm averaging about $1000/year and my car is in great shape. It started out in great shape so that helps.

People make a big todo about turbo lag. It's not an issue at the track unless you like racing around at under 3000rpm. The onset of boost is a big deal, however, in wet conditions.

Lots of people like to say that a 944S2 will be slightly faster than a similarly driven 944T at a track like LRP but I've yet to actually see that. Again, this perception of turbo lag. Turbo lag is a factor in street driving, I've yet to have it be an issue at the track. I've driven LRP frequently and not once has turbo lag been an issue. I've driven tighter tracks than LRp and not had that be an issue either. That said, a 944T would not make for a perfect auto-x platform.

A Boxster S puts out 225 ft/lbs of tq. A 944T puts out 243 ft/lbs and a TurboS puts out 250ft/lbs. However, the Boxster S has much more accesible torque on the street when you're rolling from a stoplight. At the track, it's a non-issue.