Fire extinguisher type....
04-07-2003, 12:37 AM
#1
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Fire extinguisher type....
I am required to mount a fire extinguisher in my car for my next DE at Watkins Glen. I was wondering what type I should get. I am assuming I can not go to the local Home Depot and pick one up, things are never that simple when it comes to cars. I saw some prices for 2.5 lb Halon extinguishers for over 100 dollars which seemed a bit expensive. Is this what I should expect to pay?
04-07-2003, 01:13 AM
#2
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Silver1.8T,
I think so - most prices I've seen ranged from about $120 - 160. I bought a 2.5 lb Safecraft extinguisher with a chrome finish from <a href="http://www.performancechrome.com/en-us/dept_189.html" target="_blank">Performance Chrome</a> for $125.
Mounted it to the DAS roll bar using a bracket from Northstar Motorsports.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/web.jpg" alt=" - " />
I think so - most prices I've seen ranged from about $120 - 160. I bought a 2.5 lb Safecraft extinguisher with a chrome finish from <a href="http://www.performancechrome.com/en-us/dept_189.html" target="_blank">Performance Chrome</a> for $125.
Mounted it to the DAS roll bar using a bracket from Northstar Motorsports.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/web.jpg" alt=" - " />
04-07-2003, 02:32 AM
#3
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Silver1.8T:
<strong>I am required to mount a fire extinguisher in my car for my next DE at Watkins Glen. I was wondering what type I should get. I am assuming I can not go to the local Home Depot and pick one up, things are never that simple when it comes to cars. I saw some prices for 2.5 lb Halon extinguishers for over 100 dollars which seemed a bit expensive. Is this what I should expect to pay?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">thats about the price you will pay for a halon... its a minimal investment if it saves your car (or life) one time though
<strong>I am required to mount a fire extinguisher in my car for my next DE at Watkins Glen. I was wondering what type I should get. I am assuming I can not go to the local Home Depot and pick one up, things are never that simple when it comes to cars. I saw some prices for 2.5 lb Halon extinguishers for over 100 dollars which seemed a bit expensive. Is this what I should expect to pay?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">thats about the price you will pay for a halon... its a minimal investment if it saves your car (or life) one time though
04-07-2003, 10:59 AM
#5
Race Director
There are three basic types of FE's you can use for DE's:
1. Dry Chemical: these are the cheap ones that can be found at Home Depot stores. Big problem with them: they are corrosive on engine wiring, electric components...etc. If not washed off immediately, a dry chem system can do alot of damage to the various components in an engine bay.
2. Halon: While Halon FE's are not corrosive, they still need to be cleaned up after use. Halon FE's are no longer being supported due to environmental issues. You can still find them for sale, and you can still refill them, but it's getting expensive.
3. Halatron: These FE's use a new 'clean' fire fighting agent that is replacing the Halon systems. IMHO, this is the FE you should get: I plan on upgrading my dry chem FE to a Halatron system soon.
Of course, once an FE is discharged, it does have to be cleaned up, not matter what system you have.
Check with Bob from Stable Energies: 973-773-3177: he can explain all your options.
HTH,
-Zoltan.
1. Dry Chemical: these are the cheap ones that can be found at Home Depot stores. Big problem with them: they are corrosive on engine wiring, electric components...etc. If not washed off immediately, a dry chem system can do alot of damage to the various components in an engine bay.
2. Halon: While Halon FE's are not corrosive, they still need to be cleaned up after use. Halon FE's are no longer being supported due to environmental issues. You can still find them for sale, and you can still refill them, but it's getting expensive.
3. Halatron: These FE's use a new 'clean' fire fighting agent that is replacing the Halon systems. IMHO, this is the FE you should get: I plan on upgrading my dry chem FE to a Halatron system soon.
Of course, once an FE is discharged, it does have to be cleaned up, not matter what system you have.
Check with Bob from Stable Energies: 973-773-3177: he can explain all your options.
HTH,
-Zoltan.
04-07-2003, 12:03 PM
#6
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I would contact OG Racing (www.ogracing.com) and order a Halon extinguisher. Should run around $125. Brey Krause makes a nice bracket to mount the extinguisher in front of your passenger seat, and doesn't require drilling any holes. If you go that route, mount the fire extinguisher with the nozzle pointing down.
As others pointed out, avoid the $10 extinguisher, as it can be corrosive to aluminum.
As others pointed out, avoid the $10 extinguisher, as it can be corrosive to aluminum.
04-07-2003, 01:18 PM
#7
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I am mounting this in a Boxster. I dont really even see the point but it is required for a DE. I have no way to spray it onto a fire in the engine in the event of a fire. The engine is pretty much sealed off to the outside.
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04-07-2003, 01:59 PM
#8
Race Director
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Silver1.8T:
<strong>I am mounting this in a Boxster. I dont really even see the point but it is required for a DE. I have no way to spray it onto a fire in the engine in the event of a fire. The engine is pretty much sealed off to the outside.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">God forbid, but if your engine caught fire, believe me, you'd find a way to get to the flames! You could probably aim the FE up from the bottom of the car, kinda over the engine cover. Plus you could have a fire elsewhere in the car, and your extinguisher may save someone else's car too!
IMHO, a FE should be a requirement for all DE's (my region only requires a FE for intermediate and upper run groups).
FYI: Stable energies does sell a FE mount for the Boxster, at 1/2 the cost of the BK FE mount.
It is just as effective.
-Z-man.
<strong>I am mounting this in a Boxster. I dont really even see the point but it is required for a DE. I have no way to spray it onto a fire in the engine in the event of a fire. The engine is pretty much sealed off to the outside.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">God forbid, but if your engine caught fire, believe me, you'd find a way to get to the flames! You could probably aim the FE up from the bottom of the car, kinda over the engine cover. Plus you could have a fire elsewhere in the car, and your extinguisher may save someone else's car too!
IMHO, a FE should be a requirement for all DE's (my region only requires a FE for intermediate and upper run groups).
FYI: Stable energies does sell a FE mount for the Boxster, at 1/2 the cost of the BK FE mount.
It is just as effective.
-Z-man.
04-07-2003, 04:53 PM
#10
Somehow, I think if there's a fire in a car, the last thing I'm going to do is stick around and try to put it out. As Silver1.8T has mentioned, the engine compartment is virtually impossible to reach from the interior. By the time I even realize that there is an engine fire, it's probably too late for the fire extinguisher to actually do anything meaningful.
Shooting up from the bottom of the car? I'm certainly not getting under a burning car to try to put it out.
Would having a fire extinguisher save somebody else's car? Pretty damn unlikely. Let's observe the likely scenario.
1) Somebody's car is on fire
2) The flaggers would notice this first and radio it in.
3) The session would be red flagged
4) The fire truck would race to the scene
5) The fire truck would put out the fire.
We have had this exact situation happen at one of our events two years ago.
You would have gotten a strong lecture (and probably sent home) if you actually continued driving through the red flag in an attempt to put out a fire with your extinguisher. You may have been hit by traffic (like the fire truck) if you further decided that it was a good idea to get out of your car to race towards a burning vehicle. That would have definitely got you sent packing home.
The most I can see an extinguisher doing is possibly putting out a fire near your brakes. If the interior of your car is on fire, I would strongly advise against staying in the car to get the fire extinguisher out. This is what insurance is for...
The only fire extinguishing system that makes any sort of sense for me is the one that floods the engine by switching some lever in the cockpit.
My best guess is that the fire extinguisher requirement is more for an insurance reason than any sort of real safety measure.
Shooting up from the bottom of the car? I'm certainly not getting under a burning car to try to put it out.
Would having a fire extinguisher save somebody else's car? Pretty damn unlikely. Let's observe the likely scenario.
1) Somebody's car is on fire
2) The flaggers would notice this first and radio it in.
3) The session would be red flagged
4) The fire truck would race to the scene
5) The fire truck would put out the fire.
We have had this exact situation happen at one of our events two years ago.
You would have gotten a strong lecture (and probably sent home) if you actually continued driving through the red flag in an attempt to put out a fire with your extinguisher. You may have been hit by traffic (like the fire truck) if you further decided that it was a good idea to get out of your car to race towards a burning vehicle. That would have definitely got you sent packing home.
The most I can see an extinguisher doing is possibly putting out a fire near your brakes. If the interior of your car is on fire, I would strongly advise against staying in the car to get the fire extinguisher out. This is what insurance is for...
The only fire extinguishing system that makes any sort of sense for me is the one that floods the engine by switching some lever in the cockpit.
My best guess is that the fire extinguisher requirement is more for an insurance reason than any sort of real safety measure.
04-07-2003, 05:24 PM
#11
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I used my FE to put out a fire on someone elses car. It happened in the paddock. Another driver pulled into the paddock near me and didn't even realize there were flames coming from his engine compartment, a 911. Noone else saw it either until I ran over with my FE. The fire was extinguished before any real damage was caused. I'm quite certain that flaggers didn't notice, noone radioed it in, and no fire truck was at the scene.
I carry a 2.5# FE in addition to my on board system, you never know what's gonna happen.
I carry a 2.5# FE in addition to my on board system, you never know what's gonna happen.
04-07-2003, 05:34 PM
#12
Well, I stand corrected. A good use of the extinguisher is definitely for mishaps in the pit/paddock area.
I don't know if you would have been as effective though had you both been out on the track. What could you have done if he didn't realize it? Get in front of him and start slowing down in hopes that he would have come to a stop?
Since I also drive a Boxster, maybe I'm more than a bit biased. I think that by the time any Boxster owner realizes that there is a fire, it's going to be too late to do anything useful (at least on the track - perhaps in the paddock it's a different story). On the track, if there's a fire in my car, I'm getting out. Call me crazy, but a car isn't worth 3rd degree burns. Maybe if I get a full nomex suit, I'll consider sticking around to fight the fire.
I don't know if you would have been as effective though had you both been out on the track. What could you have done if he didn't realize it? Get in front of him and start slowing down in hopes that he would have come to a stop?
Since I also drive a Boxster, maybe I'm more than a bit biased. I think that by the time any Boxster owner realizes that there is a fire, it's going to be too late to do anything useful (at least on the track - perhaps in the paddock it's a different story). On the track, if there's a fire in my car, I'm getting out. Call me crazy, but a car isn't worth 3rd degree burns. Maybe if I get a full nomex suit, I'll consider sticking around to fight the fire.
04-07-2003, 06:22 PM
#13
Race Director
Brian:
If a session is red-flagged, and Mr. "My car's on fire" doesn't realize that he's the cause, he may stop short of where the flaggers are with FE's. If you happen to be behind said car, then your FE is the closest extinguisher around.
Now granted, we are to stay in our cars during a red flag situation while on the track. BUT: if a car infront of me is on fire, I'm not going to sit around waiting for it to reach my car! I'd either get the heck out of there, or try to stop the fire.
Yes, there are track rules that require us to stay in our cars, but for certain situations, I am sure they would understand. You may get yelled at, but most likely not, especially if you prevent damage and save a life.
Now, if my car is on fire: I'm getting out (of course), and if the flames haven't totally engulfed the car, then I'm going to try to put it out. It's a judgement call: the trick is to get the fire out before it gets out of hand.
Just my $0.42.
-Z-man.
If a session is red-flagged, and Mr. "My car's on fire" doesn't realize that he's the cause, he may stop short of where the flaggers are with FE's. If you happen to be behind said car, then your FE is the closest extinguisher around.
Now granted, we are to stay in our cars during a red flag situation while on the track. BUT: if a car infront of me is on fire, I'm not going to sit around waiting for it to reach my car! I'd either get the heck out of there, or try to stop the fire.
Yes, there are track rules that require us to stay in our cars, but for certain situations, I am sure they would understand. You may get yelled at, but most likely not, especially if you prevent damage and save a life.
Now, if my car is on fire: I'm getting out (of course), and if the flames haven't totally engulfed the car, then I'm going to try to put it out. It's a judgement call: the trick is to get the fire out before it gets out of hand.
Just my $0.42.
-Z-man.
04-07-2003, 08:01 PM
#14
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I see the value of a fire extinguisher in attacking a burning person, not a vehicle. That person could be me! Given that this is my primary goal, does this change the recommended class? I suggest a dry chemical extinguisher is better for this purpose.
Russ
Russ
04-07-2003, 08:48 PM
#15
Car ahead of you catchs fire, you are about 1/2 way around Road America. Fire truck is about 2 miles (or more away). Your FE may be the nearest. Your car catchs fire. You have hit something and are hampered in getting out of the car. You may want something near at hand for fire suppression! I encountered a burning 914 (not at all uncommon) at the pit entrance my first DE. There were people fighting the fire but no trucks. The more help the better at that point (but that one was betond halon which works best in confined areas). The 914 was later restored.
I think all cars should be required to carry extinguishers and first aid kits, and learning how to use them should be part of getting a license.
I think all cars should be required to carry extinguishers and first aid kits, and learning how to use them should be part of getting a license.