Tom W

I'm in the process of getting my cabriolet ready for DE's. The roll bar is on order, the fire extinguisher has arrived and I'm looking at harnesses. I have a simple question: What's the difference between a "pull up" and a "pull down" harness and will it matter which I buy?

For folk experienced with different cam locks, are there cam locks you hated and cam locks you like or are they all about the same?

Greg Fishman

You want pull down. Means that you pull down to tighten the harnesses. Pull up is generally for open wheel cars where someone else is helping you.

I have the Team Tech harnesses and I am happy with them. I would also consider Schroth and Willians.
I didn't like my old Simpson harness because of the camlock. It has a protruding release lever and you could hit it and release belts during the middle of a session.

Tom

Pull down harness, you pull down on the straps to tighten, pull up you (or more accurately your crew) pulls up on the straps to screw you into the seat. Pull downs are easier for the driver to tighten him(her)self.

wannabefaster

I use pull downs for shoulder harness and pullups for laps belt. You need to consider seat construction and bolt down points. In my case, i have a 951 with Butler Built aluminum seats with very high sides...no way you could use a pulldown. If you've got a stock seat pulldowns are probably fine.

Z-man

If you're using your stock seats, (not really recommended, but that's what I have for now), you may want to consider the pull-up type. There's not much room around the sides of a stock seat to give you the leverage you need to properly snug a pull-down type harness. With a racing seat, it's probably a different story.

I have a set of G-force harnesses, and according to a couple of my instructors at DE this year, my pull-ups are the only ones they found to be easy to adjust. (End: shameless plug for G-Force).

Just my $0.42
-Zoltan.

GhettoRacer

[quote]Originally posted by wannabefaster:
<strong>I use pull downs for shoulder harness and pullups for laps belt. You need to consider seat construction and bolt down points. In my case, i have a 951 with Butler Built aluminum seats with very high sides...no way you could use a pulldown. If you've got a stock seat pulldowns are probably fine.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'll 2nd that. Pull downs for shoulder harness, and pull ups for lap belts. Some places let you specify when ordering.

Cam locks much faster to put in vs. latches. Also consider getting a proper 6 pts harness with good sub belt. The best way is the D ring straps that goes around the family jewl. There's an harness article floating around about that.

Z-man

[quote]Originally posted by GhettoRacer:
<strong>I'll 2nd that. Pull downs for shoulder harness, and pull ups for lap belts. Some places let you specify when ordering.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
IIRC, all shoulder harnesses are pull-down: the lap belts are the ones where you have the choice between pull down or pull up. (And again: with stock seats, pull up work better for me)

-Z.

Matt Vaughan

Hi Tom, I've been really pleased thus far with my Schroths. They are of excellent build quality, and if the factory uses them, they're good enough for me! Talk to Steve Weiner; he'll get you all set.

Bill Gregory

[quote]<strong>Also consider getting a proper 6 pts harness with good sub belt. </strong><hr></blockquote>

I use 5 point harnesses, and am familiar with 6 point harnesses. What's a 6 point harness with a good sub belt, and why is that better than either a 5 point or 6 point?

JJG

What's a 6 point harness with a good sub belt, and why is that better than either a 5 point or 6 point?

I use 6-pt because I didn't want to drill a hole in the floor in order to mount a 5-pt -- the 6-pt's mount to the seat bolts. I don't think one is better than the other as long as it serves it's intended function which is to keep the lap belt over the hips. You could argue the 5-pt mounted to the floor is more sturdy, but then if you don't have a roll-bar what's the point.

kary993

As I understand the rules for POC and PCA the sub belts cannot be mounted to the seat in any way. I think it is mandatory to have the belt mounted to the floor regardless of 5 or 6 points. I think this goes for lap belts as well....

Isn't that correct?

Z-man

[quote]Originally posted by kary993:
<strong>As I understand the rules for POC and PCA the sub belts cannot be mounted to the seat in any way. I think it is mandatory to have the belt mounted to the floor regardless of 5 or 6 points. I think this goes for lap belts as well....

Isn't that correct?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, IIRC, that is correct, but for most DE's, that rule does not apply. Check with your local organizer for DE's. (Ex: in NNJR - PCA: you can run with stock seatbelts up to the intermediate run groups)
-Z.

Tom W

Our local PCA (GGR, zone 7) requires 5 or 6 point belts for everything but the high speed drivers school.

So, another question that I should have asked originally too. I have no qualms about drilling to install the sub-belt. Is there a big difference in fit for a 5 vs. 6-point sub? I've read other threads where folk argue both ways (don't want a 5 in an accident due to the possible pain, don't want a 6 because it get's too much stuff between your legs and gets uncomfortable). I'm using the stock seats (for now) and was wondering if a 6 might be better since it has to come over the front of the seat and not through a hole in the seat. An opinions?

Z-man

[quote]Originally posted by Tom W:
<strong>Our local PCA (GGR, zone 7) requires 5 or 6 point belts for everything but the high speed drivers school.

So, another question that I should have asked originally too. I have no qualms about drilling to install the sub-belt. Is there a big difference in fit for a 5 vs. 6-point sub? I've read other threads where folk argue both ways (don't want a 5 in an accident due to the possible pain, don't want a 6 because it get's too much stuff between your legs and gets uncomfortable). I'm using the stock seats (for now) and was wondering if a 6 might be better since it has to come over the front of the seat and not through a hole in the seat. An opinions?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Tom:
I have stock seats and a 6-point setup. When I first strap in, I can obviously feel the sub-belts rubbing on the inside of my thighs. But in a minute, I don't even notice them. And they do not obstruct the movement you need for brake, clutch, and throttle.

I believe they designed the 6-point belt in order to accomodate people like you and me: who retain their stock seats, and (in my case), don't want to drill through the floor.

Note: I've heard of people using a 5-point system by just attaching the substrap underneath one of the seat rails. IMO, since that doesn't really center the harness across your body, it probably isn't as safe or comfortable.
Just my $0.42
-Zoltan.