PPo

Forgive me if this question is ignorant or the answer is obvious, but I honestly do not know the answer to this question.

How do you mount the 6-point seatbelt with respect to routing the two substraps through the seat?

Every single race seat I have seen only has the hole cut for the one substrap, I have never seen a seat cut for a 6-point harness. Do I cut my own slots? (Do I want to do this with a Carbon or Fiberglass seat?)

Thanks in advance for all those who reply...

-Patrick

Capt. Carrera

Here's an easy and safe way. It's detailed in the SCCA GCR (General Competition Regulations). You can download the GCR for free at www.scca.org. Bolt the subs to the same point as the lap belts. Route them through the side cutouts and sit on the subs. Bring the belts up between your legs and buckle.

If you read the GCR you'll be well equipped to decide how to install your harness.

RedlineMan

Hey;

The method that the Captain describes is viable, but it is intended to be a "problem solver," and is not the best way to do it in a track car. Routing the subs back to the lap belt mount holes is a good solution for stock seats, or through the seat at the lap belt holes for race seats that don't have sub holes. However, it only represents the "best compromise" for those applications. If you're talking a serious track car - which I'm sure Pat is - then somewhere down under the seat is the best.

The sub strap has one main purpose, and though it is simple, it is VITAL. It primarily exists to maintain lap belt position. It is there to counter the forces put on the lap belt by the shoulder straps. Thus, it is most effective running in the opposite direction from them.

If you have a generic single or "V" sub, you likely want to mount it about 10* forward of the extended imaginary "spine line." You really don't want these in close proximity to The Boys because it can be an overly intimate situation. Not nice at all!

If you are using one of the sub types that is friendly to your delicate appendages, like a "T", Schroth Hyrid, or Simpson Platinum DSL, then you should look to mount them somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-20* behind the imaginary spine line. This will give you the added benefit of some direct hip control by creating a slight cradling effect.

Wherever you need the sub holes in the seat base to accomplish this proper positioning is where they should be. If you feel that adding the proper holes will compromise the integrity of the seat, then you need to think about reinforcing it. If existing holes merely need some "radiusing" it probably is not of real concern. If you have to do some more major surgery, you might think about welding in some patches on an alloy seat, or bonding on an aluminum reinforcing plate on a plastic seat.

Finally, sub belts actually see about the same force levels as any other belt in the system, so their mounting points should not be underestimated or given short shrift.

KRA993tt

I think what you are looking for is that the single elongated hole in a race seat works for both sub straps. They do not require individual holes to my knowledge.

Regarding the install... what John said above. The mfg. of the belts you buy likely also has install advice.

PPo

Captain, Thanks for the reply! I will read the SCCA GCR as you suggested. John, thank you for sharing your knowledge as well, I appreciate it.

Thanks. That is what I was assuming, but somehow it didn't seem right to me! So my Momo Nascar seat can mount the two substraps in that one hole? Hmmm... Doesn't seem that it would be much different then the single sub strap.

The reason why I am asking this question is because I plan on buying a new Scroth harness and an Isaac this winter. My only question was should I go with a 5-point harness or 6-point. My biggest concern is buying the 6-point harness and not installing it correctly. I may just settle for the 5-point since I am very comfortable that I can install that correctly. Please feel free to comment on the 6 vs 5 point subject.

Thanks,
Patrick

KRA993tt

Patrick,

For me the 6 point is much more comfortable. The single strap across the jewels is rough. With the two sub straps they actually are around your thigh more. Like a parachute or climbing harness.

I believe, beside the comfort factor you are spreading the structural load by having two mounting points on your floor for the six point harness.

Greg Smith

I was talking to HMS earlier today and the way i understood it was that the belts should be mounted 20* behind a vertical line running down along the front of your body(as opposed to the middle/spine). Which one is correct?

RedlineMan

No, obviously to limit the spacing of the double straps does not help. But, there is not much effective difference between the single and "V" type subs. With either, there is no room for The Kids.

You need to seperate the 2 point mounting styles. The "V" sub is little more than a single in practice. You really won't derive any benefit from one. If you're talking a "T" sub, A Simpson Platinum DSL, or a Schroth Hybrid... now you're talking!

These styles all allow room between the sub straps for The Jewels to breath. Since they offer this room, you can wear them nestled back in the groin to give a cradle effect, which increases system performance markedly. You cannot do this with a single or "V" sub... unless you are into S&M or other forms of self abuse.

The Schroth Profi is a "T" sub, and it can be configured to perform very well, and quite comfortably. Any other brand "T" sub (I know Willans makes several) will perform in a similar fashion. The Simpson Platinum DSL should be similar in performance and comfort. The King of the Hill right now is the Schroth Hybrid. They are very high in performance and quality, and exceptionally comfortable, as the many of us who have them have attested on this forum previously. They are expensive, but they are worth it.

I think I've answered this. If you follow the Schroth directions, you you will be fine.

If you can't manage it, time for another visit. Haven't seen you but once since the roll bar purchase!!

RedlineMan

Ha...

Very funny. For those of us with guts, the spine is a much more pleasing propsition to ponder!

924RACR

Patrick - have you considered a 7-point? They're even better than a 6-, which is correspondingly better than a 5. It's been discussed before on here, I'm sure.

I'll be upgrading to the 7-pt when I next redo my belts, in another year or so.

As for 6-point, I'm with the Cap'n - same as lap belts, where the stock 3-point belt attaches. I run a Kirkey aluminum seat customized to allow the sub belts to come in a little lower; lap belts just go over the sides. The sub belts I routed UNDER the seat cover, and I sit on them as described. It's just like a parachute or rock-climbing harness.

PPo

Great! Thanks for the info guys!!

John, I just purchased a 924S class I/SP2 car that has already been prepped. Had I built a car from scratch I would have hauled it down for you to build the cage!

Based on the advice on this thread I think I am going to purchase a Schroth 6-point and mount it using one of my Kirkeys with appropriate slots cut into the seat... Thanks guys...

Cheers,
Patrick

PPo

Just a quick addition...

While doing some research I found this -> http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/docs/Co...structions.pdf

I was honestly surprised with how much I did not know about mounting the harnesses correctly. What is even more scary is how many cars I have seen that have belts mounted incorrectly according to this manual.

Okay... I need to get some work done...

Thanks guys,
Patrick

RedlineMan

Let me reiterate, for the record;

This is NOT the optimum setup for sub straps. It is a problem solver compromise in the situations and for the reasons I stated previously. This setup is NOT the best for lap belt control, even if the subs are worn very tight. If they are worn very tight, they are not very comfortable.

The best sub setup is exaclty how Schroth describes it for their Hybrid and Profi systems. It gives the best balance of lap belt control, along with a moderate cradle effect. Any "split sub" system can be configured this way and will offer maximum comfort and performance.

A 7-point gives you the best of both worlds. They give the best lap belt control of a 5-point with the cradle effect of a properly installed 6-point. However, they have been rendered rather redundant by the Schroth systems in my opinion.

RedlineMan

You are SOOOO very correct!

sbarton

Is the picture 6 posts above striclty for the Hybrid system, or is it for all 6-point systems?

In that Instruction manual linked in the post above, it says to install 6 point harnesses like what the SCCA GCR says as Capt Carrera mentioned.

Here is a picture.
"http://www.dtmotorsports.com/~sbarton/6PointRouting.jpg"

-Scott