I'll chime in with my $.02.

I was in your situation a few years ago as well taking my almost new Porsche to the track and falling in love with the experience. I quickly decided not to abuse my street car (paint chips and windshield pitting) and decided to buy a dedicated track car.

After talking to alot of PCA instructors in my club with decades of experience I decided to take their advise and get a lower HP car to focus on learning to drive better. I ended up buying a 944 S2 (see below) and turning it into a dedicated beast.

Now when I started driving it as you would expect I was not "as fast" as my other car but after a while I started learning about carrying the speed through the corners and actually started driving faster than before.

I'm now running in the solo groups and usually have one of the lower HP cars in the group. That being said it gives me great permagrin to pass cars with literally twice the HP as mine because you know it's definitely NOT the car.

Someday I may get a GT3 Cup but for now I'm still improving and happy to be where I am.

BTW, the instructors in my club are running 2:17 -19's at VIR with only 208HP Now that's driving!!

 

I agree with Eddie. I followed a similar path going from a 996TT to a 944T when I became addicted. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't build the track car, I would buy one already done. You will pay 1/4 the price of what it costs to build one yourself.

 

I've been reading this thread, and it has occured to me based on my limited track experience that perhaps I don't need such an expensive high hp car in order to improve my skills and enjoy the experience. Furthermore, the fun I experienced in my GT3 at the recent track event had less to do with how fast it went down the straights than with how well it handled the corners, something that is availabe to someone of my limited skills in a much more modest package. Combine these concepts with my anxiety at the potential of wrecking an expensive car on the track, I'm considering getting a dedicated "beater" car for track use only. Any thoughts on my thoughts? I'm thinking of a Porsche 944 which can be set up really nicely for the track and cheaply, or maybe even a Miata, which I hear is a blast on the track.

So am I crazy to be thinking this way being that I have one of the ultimate track cars already with my GT3, or is this reasonable thinking for someone at a novice level?

 

Mark, the truth is that while you may have the ultimate DE car (GT-3) you probably would have more fun in a lesser car (944). You certainly can learn to drive well using the GT-3 but as you say, driving a much less expensive car would lessen the anxiety of wrecking. Also, the great inherent balance of the 944 makes it easier to drive fast. Usually the newly signed of solo driver has the most spins (not counting racers). Better to spin in a $10k 944 than a $100k GT-3.

 

I will concur with this. My normal track car is a 1997 M3 with 92,xxx miles. I also have a more valuable car that I track occasionally, which is probably worth 10x what the M3 is worth. It is heavy, but superbly balanced, and a delight on track.

Guess which one I am more comfortable REALLY pushing?

 

When I started this year, I left my new 997 in the garage and bought a stock 82 SC (180hp - so they claim) for $12,000 to take to the track. Best decision I ever made. The low horsepower car with no electronic aides on street tires is great way to learn to drive because the car gives you so much feedback and you don't worry about your first "off". As I progressed, I added safety equipement after about 6 days and then full suspension and r compound tires after about 25 (on the advice of my instructors). I started this year with a couple of buddies who drive a 997s and a Cayman S and I drive the same lap times as them at places like Lime Rock where carrying speed is everything.

One last thought about the gt3. This is in no way a scientific observation and I might get flamed, but it seems to me that I see more off track excursions (some serious) in gt3's in all run groups than in any other car.

 

Congratulations on your keen perceptions!

You are a model for the thinking enthusiast. In the case of novice-to-intermediate drivers, the ultimate track car is one you can access and exploit the potential of. That is NOT a GT3 for most people. Besides, there are already enough "slowly driven" GT3s around already.

Performance driving is an intensely personal and internal exercise. If you look at your reflection in the face of your stopwatch as you read the times, and are honest with yourself, you know you don't need a fast car. You need a faster driver.

Faster car? What's your point? Nothing wrong with wanting to own a dream car, but if you want to learn to drive... You could be slow in either, but you'll learn faster in a "slower" car. I bet you have more fun too.

Word, again!

 

well, I may as well say it......if I had the GT3 I would be at every track event I could driving the hell out of it!!! that's what its for!! Oh yeah, that is what I do with my twin turbo!

Sean, funny you make that comment because that is exactly my experience as well, GT3 off road excursions 2:1 versus other cars.

really think one should "work their way up" to a GT3 car. this is not the car to have for your first track experience. The lessons of lower hp cars must be instilled first.

The GT3 car is a car for "capable" drivers only and then still a handful. It doesnt have the electronic safety nets and is meant to be a track car. Thats why I went with the turbo, not as good a track car but for someone of my driving skills much safer.

Mark I'll be at Moroso in Jan, come say Hi!!!

my 2 cent your results my vary.

happy holidays!!

tom

 

I think that is a very accurate observation. Having owned and tracked one, I feel that I can state that GT3s are not for the beginner or the intermediate, and they can and do bite you if you do not drive properly. They do not take kindly to pinching the turns, lifting mid-corner, or failure to unwind the wheel when the motor comes upon the cam.

All the skills and car control that it takes to drive one well are learned, and honed on slow cars. If you pay your dues, and do not try to skip steps, you will progress faster (ask TD in DC) and be a better driver overall. It is then that you will be ready for that GT3, and trust me, you will be blindingly fast right out of the box. Unmodestly, this I know.

 

I have a stripped out 944 race car. This is the 10k 944 they talk about. 134.2 rwhp and 2450 lbs.

The car is blast to drive. I had student in 996TT. Car was fast, but boring compared to the 944. I had student in GT3. I drove it for a few laps on track to show the line. Found it to be lots of fun in the corners. Never got on it hard on the straights as it was not my car. My reation was that it felt just about as nice as my 944 in corners and I was impressed. Of course my 944 cost 10k and the GT3 100k.

 

Regarding track driven GT-3's: my understanding is that the suspension needs to be aligned differently than it's "street settings." A friend of mine (veteran driver) just switched to a GT3 (previous car was a 993). He said the car was a handful until he got the suspension dialed in properly for the track.

Food for thought.
-Z-man.

 

I must say I am really enjoying this forum and especially this thread. What would you all recomend for someone that has a situation like mine. I can not push a clutch pedal due to a left leg amputation so..... I took my 997 C2S Cab to Sebring for my 1st DE. I absolutly LOVED IT...the learning and the people. I want to get much more heavily involved with DE's and my local club.
What car would be good as a track car with some sort of shiftable auto trannie?

Thanks all, Mike

 

I haven’t been in a new generation Tiptronic, so I would test drive one before buying but……

Last weekend my girlfriend bought a 2004 M3 with a SMG transmission and I was really surprised at how close is mimics a manual. When you are driving it in “manual” you need to let off the gas just like you would a stick. There are either paddles or you can use the stick, which I do, even though it only goes up and down (vertically, not horizontally). It has 5 or 6 levels of throttle “mapping” and the brakes somehow become more aggressive at the higher levels (I think that's right). At level 6 you have to take off the traction control and the throttle response is fantastic. The steering is very precise and surprisingly heavy, but I prefer my car of course. I am still not sure about the downshifts. SMG is a bit of a challenge and not something you can just jump into and drive well, which appeals to me.

Right now I only have about 30 mins. of street driving in it, but she is taking it to Summit Point on Saturday so I will get to wring it out a bit if she lets me drive it.

If I only had one car and had to fight DC traffic daily and then wanted to go to the track, this would be the car I would buy (unless the Porsche tips are really good). For more info. check out bimmerforums.com.

 

x2! My brother bought a BMW Z4 3.0 with SMG (sequential manual gearbox) and it rocks. I personally still prefer a manual, but if I had to go sans clutch pedal, SMG would be fun. I can't speak for the Porsche tip having never driven one. Give it a try before making up your mind.

 

My particular experience with your question is this:

I tried to drive as much as possible and used instructors, drove in their cars, followed good drivers, and had some instruction from pros. As much as I could at events. All very useful and I learned quite a bit. This past year I dedicated myself to using data acquisition. Learning about how to use it for my driving. Enough so that I added the G2X product to my business offering because I thought it was a great product. (not trying to sell you here just my experience and expereince of many others.)

The thing I found about the data acquisition that the others could not provide alone, not instructors, not lap timers, or not even pros was my ability to analyze different track lines, compare laps against other drivers, and analyze car changes using the data. It will show you amazing things just using G loads and segment times improving your laps significantly.

I learned things that no one was telling me because they could not possibly see or remember what was happening on track or which line was better for my car and my driving style.

If you purchased a G2X for example, and used it in conjunction with good instruction, have good drivers drive your car, and compare those laps against your laps using the data a G2X in this example, you will learn at a much faster rate because you will see quantitatively what is actually happening with your driving. lap timers are great, but you (and all of us) make many mistakes even on our fastest laps. That is someting I learned from looking at the data that I could not see before using data acquisition! even my fastest laps show me opportunities for improvement that I could never see before. It has taken me a year to brake habits of looking at lap times for results. I now am using segment times with key segment for a track to concentrate on improving lap times. It is kind of like the golfer that goes to the driving range and aimlessly drive golf ***** without an objective in mind or in this case a target to aim at. he never gets any better. It is the same with track driving. You need guidance to know what you shoul dbe focusing on and then need a tool to measure it.

Consider getting a G2X because it is easy to use and easy to install in any car....best of luck in your driving goals!!!