SC11

I am just guessing at the speed, but 135 seems high. I have seen telemetry for cars turning similar times and they are only getting about 125 through there. The race car went around 135 through there but it turns faster times. More like 1:34.

We walked the track that evening to take pictures of the skid. I had just hit those inside bumps. There were alot of marks there, but I had the fresh desert tracks to tell me where I had been. They do a great job of keeping that part of the desert smooth!

As a driver I learned not to spin a borrowed car in turn 8! Also I think I should have at least come in and checked hot tire pressures before pushing that hard. We did not know where we were at as far as that goes.

mooty

i ran 1:40 in a stock 996 c2 3 years ago. it appears to me that the rear tire bottomed out, hit something slippery or overheated. i can't tell from the sound, but if you didn't lift, there's no way you can spin out at T8 unless due to those things i mentioned above. glad you and car are fine tho.

NNH

Glad you're OK - I took out my front bumper and RH radiator when I came off at WSIR.

SC11

I have had several people mention the bottoming out theory which is why we bumped up the damping settings. The car did not seem so friendly when we increased the damping later in the day. Perhaps it could use stiffer springs? I don't know what was in the car. I know it sits pretty low, but don't know if it has stock bump stops or even has bump stops.

It slid in a nice predictable way in and out of turn 2 so that made me think it was not the tires, which were Michelin Sport Cups.

Nobody is happier than me that nothing bad happened in the spin. I would have had to sell everything in my garage to pay for a rolled 996!

JackOlsen

I turn in to turn 8 at 123 mph and exit at 127 mph. This is according to my data logger (Porsche speedos are typically optimistic).

I've seen the data for a lap of Cort Wagner driving a 1:29 at Willow in a 996. He wasn't able to get the car above 129 mph anywhere during the lap. But I don't know much about the 996 he was driving or the tires it had on it.

My highest speeds come in the straight between 8 and 9, before the braking point for 9, and then again (usually about the same number) at the end of the front straight. I've never gotten my car faster than 132 mph at Willow. Race cars go much faster.

As I said before: in any normally-aspirated 911, it's going to be hard to lose control of a car at that point in the turn unless you have a tire/alignment issue, or the track has oil or debris on it. If you were bottoming out on any of the bumps in 8, then you'd be bottoming out much worse at the bottom of the hill in turn 5 or under braking for turn 3. Turn 8 is not the part of the track where you're pulling the highest lateral g's, and your car isn't squatting very much there at all, since you're not generating all that much torque in such a high gear.

Where was the oil leaking from?

For those of you unfamiliar with the track, here's a satellite image. Typically, a car will not need to use its brakes from the first red dot (braking for turn 5) to somewhere around the second one (the braking zone for turn 9).



Willow Springs probably has the highest average speed of any road course in North America. If you click on the " " link in my signature, you'll see a lap where my average speed over the entire lap works out to just over 100 mph.

That 996 was being pushed pretty hard, in spite of the muffled sound of the video. Any time a street car gets below a 1:40 at Willow, you're seeing some pretty serious driving.

(I'd personally be leery about doing that in a borrowed car.)

Barfly

Jack, are you going to be at the OTR event in the middle of November?

I hope I can make it. I'm quite fond of WSIR, especially given that it's where I had my cherry popped.

JackOlsen

I'll be there. I've never driven a track that I like as much as I do Willow Springs.

It's fast.

Flying Finn

I agree with the "slow on the wheel" comments. It's not meant to say you're driving slow, just that when the rear starts to slide, you react too slowly to be able to correct the slide. Not meant be badmounthing or anything at all, just some positive critisism and I'd think you want advice since you posted this?
That's what my reply is too, just trying to help.

When you look at the video, you can see the car starting to rotate (too much) but your counter steer comes too late (you can see your right hand on the video).

This is how I saw it: slide starts because you're going close to the limit and when your car hits a bump, rear is getting little less grip, starts to come loose a little and you don't react & counter steer early enough.
Kinda hard to tell whether it's the bump or not that starts the slide but the correction being late is easy to see and IMO clearly the reason for the spin.

Look closely at the pros or other good drivers driving on a limit, this type of little slides happen all the time but because they're able to react early enough and are able to correct it, they don't spin, just keep going.

Glen

Hmmm, There are a several videos showing both Leh and Larry catching lurid high speed moments. I dont think either one is used to parking lots...Seems like they were just giving their honest opinion. Honest opinion from 2 very good drivers...pricelesss...

Greg Fishman

Someone needs to post the video of Leh through the "parking lot bus stop" at W. Glen and see if that counts as catching it.
I just think he was slow to react, probably due to not being used to that car as much as any "skill" issue.

DHinkle

I don't think anyone should take exception from feedback from Leh Keen or Larry Herman. Learning to correct a slide is one of the keys to reaching the next plateau for all of us club racers.

SC11

OK it's certainly possible I could have reacted faster there. I don't claim to be the world's best driver, but I do have hundreds of laps at WSIR and have spent 20 years trying to deal with Turn 8. I was not expecting to get that loose at that point in the turn. Maybe if I was expecting trouble I could have reacted better and kept it on the pavement. Lets just not use the "s" word so much!

I appreciate all the feedback!

Just so you know I'm not completely heartless, I spent the rest of the weekend parading around at a slower pace and captured some of my Alfa buddies on video doing their thing. All in all a fun weekend!

-Steve

kingleh

well in my honda civic at the local autoX i always win my class... and at 25mph or 125 there really cant be that much difference in a spin..ive NEVER spun my civic... even on interstate off ramps at 70!!!!!!!!!!!........ i guess im just fast on the wheel.. must be all the practice on F355 challenge at dave and busters.... in gran turismo 4 i can do 150+mph slides... and not lose it.... and thats in MY car... on MY memorie card.. not my buddys memorie card or even my NEIGHBORS.......

Glen

Well Leh, I think it was all that time You spent with Frank aka GhettoRacer that gave You these MADSKILLZ>>>>

Can I Drove Your Car????....LOL

jrgordonsenior

That bump at 8 should be taken withyour inside tires on the paint. That leaves you plenty of room to unwind the wheel a bit anticipating some loss of front grip as you settle. No need to lift usually; lots of pavement to the outside to track out and setup for 9....

The bump, for those unfamilar with the track, is just above the number 8 on the map above...

Leh someday we jsut have to get you out here to race with some our R's and RSR. Now that would be fun to watch especially while on the track.....