996 on a Diet
12-26-2006, 08:28 PM
#76
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Ed Newman
I understand your point that club racing started from roots in DE and the stock classes were supposed to allow people to drive to the track, but when people in the stock classes are spending $30k on suspension something is wrong. Also, the disparity of power and performance int he new cars has created a big problem. This brings us to the GAC cars. Why should the mods be allowed... because the GT3s run in the B with all of the mods already... seam welded chassis, lwfw, close ratio gears, LSD, upgraded computer. Some of these are only in the 997 RS, but I bet you will see one on the track in late 2007 or 2008. Maybe the GAC cars should run in GT2R or GT2S. Personally, I would not mind running against them in that class instead of B. I also think the safety is a big problem. IMO, PCA CR is a ticking time bomb with the stock and prepared classes. It is only a matter of time until someone is killed again. You cannot run in any other club that I know of without a full cage, NASA now requires double door bars and a center net or HALO seat. PCA allows the super fast new cars to run with a cheesy bolt in bar. The problem becomes that the installation of a full proper cage, fire system and all the other stuff makes the interior (sans carpet) a lost cause. As for carpet, I understand NASA and SCCA are not allowing anymore because of the flamability. Also, HANS should be mandatory. These leaves us with a few core problems...
1. How to make the cars race safe within the stock classes or limit speed somehow to keep them safe.
2. How to keep the classes reasonably compaitble with rules from other organizations
3. How to find a reasonable home for all who come and bring Porsches (GAC GS cars)
4. How to keep the stock classes stock (no RSR K members, ERP ball link suspension, $10k shocks, etc.)
5. How to deal with all of the little details of what is allowed and not allowed. If we have a base weight, what does it matter if the radio is removed or the wrong door handle are on the car, etc.
Open for ideas (and I think PCA is too)
1. How to make the cars race safe within the stock classes or limit speed somehow to keep them safe.
2. How to keep the classes reasonably compaitble with rules from other organizations
3. How to find a reasonable home for all who come and bring Porsches (GAC GS cars)
4. How to keep the stock classes stock (no RSR K members, ERP ball link suspension, $10k shocks, etc.)
5. How to deal with all of the little details of what is allowed and not allowed. If we have a base weight, what does it matter if the radio is removed or the wrong door handle are on the car, etc.
Open for ideas (and I think PCA is too)
12-28-2006, 11:29 PM
#77
Nordschleife Master
Ed, I think you raise some good points. We do have to remember that PCA is a volunteer operation, so keeping up with every new class and racing org is a little hard. I do think that the modded water cooled cars things needs to be solved, as GTA is just not a good dumping ground.
The main question I have about stripping the interior is will it be a performance advantage and turn into a "must have" mod? My gut tells me that it won't make much difference at all, so long as the car makes weight. I do agree that there is a small safety concern in cars with full interiors, but really no more so than already exists in the instructor groups in DEs. If the rule allowed stripping, but forced the minimum weight, then people could do it if they wanted.
Btw, I would also like to see PCA allow clones for the 964 RS, 993 RS and the 964 & 964 Cups (to name a few). I think there could be a simple list of the must have mods that people would need when building one. I don't think that things like the thin glass or alum hood are really necessary, but that is just me.
The main question I have about stripping the interior is will it be a performance advantage and turn into a "must have" mod? My gut tells me that it won't make much difference at all, so long as the car makes weight. I do agree that there is a small safety concern in cars with full interiors, but really no more so than already exists in the instructor groups in DEs. If the rule allowed stripping, but forced the minimum weight, then people could do it if they wanted.
Btw, I would also like to see PCA allow clones for the 964 RS, 993 RS and the 964 & 964 Cups (to name a few). I think there could be a simple list of the must have mods that people would need when building one. I don't think that things like the thin glass or alum hood are really necessary, but that is just me.
12-29-2006, 01:41 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
Why a 996????
There are few street 996 platform based successful race cars. Rumor has it that the engine and transmission just don't have the toughness to take the stress of racing.
Note the 996 993TT, the GT3 are based on the 964 cases, with 996 style heads. There must be a reason for this?
I'd leave the poor car alone, and build a 964 or 993 based race car, IMHO, of course.
Note the 996 993TT, the GT3 are based on the 964 cases, with 996 style heads. There must be a reason for this?
I'd leave the poor car alone, and build a 964 or 993 based race car, IMHO, of course.
12-29-2006, 01:50 PM
#79
Rennlist
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Originally Posted by Martin S.
There are few street 996 platform based successful race cars. Rumor has it that the engine and transmission just don't have the toughness to take the stress of racing.
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
12-29-2006, 02:09 PM
#80
Rennlist Member
All I know is....
I am on the track with Porsche Owners Club in Cali and there has been but one (1) 996 based car in the past 5 years that I have seen...I am perhaps distorted by this experience.
I know that Chris Cervelli built a 996 based race car...it was pretty quick. He wrote a great article on its prep...I have it in Word if any one wants it.
I know that Chris Cervelli built a 996 based race car...it was pretty quick. He wrote a great article on its prep...I have it in Word if any one wants it.
12-29-2006, 02:27 PM
#82
Three Wheelin'
I have over 200 track/race hours on my M96 engine. I do oil samplnig and it looks great. There was a recent article in Excellence, I believe where they ripped down a 100k mile M96 engine and said the wear looked much better than the 964 based engines. The 3.4l engines did have a problem with oil pooling under high G loads. This could be fixed with the PMNA mod. The Gen II motors have significant changes to the oil system and the X51 takes it even further to fix these problems. I have seen a few 3.4l engines w/o the mod fail, but have yet to see a 3.4l with the mod, a 3.6l or a 3.6l X51 engine fail. BTW, how many cup cars have you seen go 200 hours? As for the tranny, the 2nd gear sycnros are a weak spot, but this effects both the M96 cars as well as the new GT3s. Power Haus II makes an upgrade kit for under $100.00 (sans labor) to fix it. I believe the factory has introduced stronger syncros in all 997 transmissions.
12-29-2006, 06:21 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
I live to be wrong, and I also love to learn something new.
We have 2 PCA Club Races a year out West....I don't run with PCA, although with my POC Cup Racing License I don't think it would be a problem....as a result, not going to PCA events, I don't see 996 cars.
More power to you 996 chaps....
More power to you 996 chaps....
