924RACR

Oh, please, it's not THAT hard to disable. Just can be tricky on some cars leaving ABS functional. Of course, if you're really serious about learning how to drive on the track, you'll ditch ABS, and Power Steering, AC, and all those other stupid "driver's aids" and get down to the brass tacks of driving a REAL car!

As noted, many cars made by serious sports car manufacturers (GM's ahead of the curve on this one, sorry to say) can actually disable it. Others, like the Nissan/Infiinitis, etc., can't completely, stay on in a "nanny" mode, at least not with a button. Blame the manufacturer and buy something like a Corvette, designed for use on a racetrack, where you can turn it off. Or unplug a sensor and disable it.

I'm glad this is coming, not only because it's job security for me, but because it gives me a slightly higher chance of making it home in one piece every day. I still have to contend with the fact that morons can't see a low-slung sportscar and will readily drive right over me in broad daylight... I feel like a rabbit in a wolfpack driving around Detroit in the day...

924RACR

(though admittedly, the downside on this is keeping a bunch of idjits alive longer to pollute the gene pool)...

mamoroso

Remember the movie Minority Report...

I was listening to NPR abt it yesterday.... We are doomed. The "have" studies that "prove" how these systems are going to save at leasts 10,000 American lives per year.

Ford has already announced that all its vehicles will be equipped with some form of ESC by 2009. GM by 2010.

And Porsche.... cmon.. the 997GT3 already comes with PASM... it will be nothing to slip in another electronic device by 2010. I bet you that it will lap the 'ring in 7:30 with street legal tires though....

Tom

Looking at the cars in your signatures this seems mostly a moot point. I know I don't have to worry about disabling PASM or ABS either!

JasonAndreas

The studies were posted HERE and HERE , read them and decide for yourself.

hacker-pschorr

I totally understand your point of view - and I do not totally disagree. Problem is, the more driver aids you force people to learn with, it's going to keep lowering their skill level.

I have this pipe dream that someday we will start teaching children there are more important skills behind the wheel than how to park and use a blinker (it's really pathetic when you realize that most people cannot even master those two skills).

I was almost run off the road today by some bimbo in an H2 talking on the phone while putting on lip stick - no joke. Driver aids will not help these yo-yo's - I fear it will make them worse. Just like SUV's - it makes people "feel" safer, making them worse drivers.

earlyapex

The Feds need to mandate Stupidity Control in all of our vehicles.

924RACR

If I can develop and patent that idea, I'd be set for life! LOL

I'll propose it to our management...

Russ Murphy

That's why my kid will be doing BMW's Street Survival school as soon as he's 16. And DE's as soon as he's 18 (or whatever the minimum age is at the time).

Nordschleife

PASM is NOT the same thing as PSM!

PSM and ABS together will help save lives, if people learn how to use the aids.

Rule 1 - when you feel the brake system start to cycle, double the pressure on the brake pedal.

Rule 2 - continue to steer normally, if you need to steer around an obstacle, do so, the systems will work to let you do this.

Rule 3 - continue trying to recover the situation until it is resolved.

Rule 4 - do not rely on the stability program to make up for deficiencies in driving ability, brainfarts or lack of knowledge as to how to drive the car or circuit, otherwise there will be tears.

A few years ago, there were some studies done in the US and Canada which showed that the benefits from ABS and stability programs were greater in Canada than in the US. Investigation showed that a greater proportion of US drivers did not continue steering once the systems had cut in. This sounds like a Driver Ed issue.

R+C

Rrrockhound

Really? We're teaching people how to park? Where is this wonderful place? Around here, parking consists of getting out of your SUV where ever it happens to be stopped at the time.

Seriously, have you seen all the new electronic aids? Volvo has lane-change warning (what's gonna happen when it malfunctions and you're so used to it working, you don't notice you're changing lanes right into a tandem axle dump truck?), and how about the self parallel parking function on the new Lexus? Give it 30 feet and it will park itself. Of course, it only steers. You still have to work the brakes yourself. Thanks for that.

This can't last. You can't sustain a system where half the essential skills and practices are covered by electronics and the other half are fully manual. What does it say about the need for honing and learning skills? Just that if you wait around long enough, they'll have a chip for it. Sooner or later, we're all going to have to decide whether we're going to be drivers fully in charge, or passengers. We can't be both. And when I see what passes for driving skill, I think it's already too late. Lane-changing by braille has become so common in Columbus, I witness one near-accident practically every day. (Maybe that Volvo system is a good idea after all.) That's why I'd gladly give up my autonomy and let a machine drive the car in the city, if it would mean eliminating accidents and cutting commute times, and damn the he-man bullsh** about controlling my own car. It takes no skill to inch along in rush-hour traffic. That's why so many people do it.

Now the open road is something else...

1AS

I don't think it's all bad. Currently, aren't skid controls a ABS on different fuses? When I wanted to see if I could drift a rented Lincoln town car, it was clear the switch did not totally disable skid control. But pulling the fuse did. (ps. you can get a Town Car into a drift, but it doesn't have enough power to hold it)
Right now, nobody would want a car without abs, but the current systems are a whole lot better than some original American systems. I'm perfectly happy to have skid controls on my E55, so when I'm trail braking onto that on-ramp in wet weather, I have a small cushion. (yeah, I know that in the wet you want to brake in a straight line, but sometimes you can't squeeze past that last truck before turning in).
Can't fight all progress. AS

Sanjeevan

FYI: A Television show on something automotive was saying a Canadian study revealed that teenagers who took survival courses were more prone to getting into trouble than those who did'nt. Even though their skills improved, they also thought they were invisible, knew everyting and were taking more risks. So, survival training alone may not be enough.

P.S: Well i heard it, sounded strange, and I thought I'll say something. I'm not making any value judgements here.

Russ Murphy

I'm not suprised. I'd imagine that whether that type of instruction or exposure is a good thing or a bad thing is highly dependant on the personality and judgement of the teenager. In my son's case, he's reasonably cautious and quite mature for his age and has displayed excellent judgement for the most part (knock on wood ).
I'd much rather he learn about car control on a skid pad with an instructor than at midnight in the rain with a car full of kids. They need to develop good judgement with or without good car control skills. I'd rather it was with.

hacker-pschorr

I think your sarcasm meter is broken I was more or less refering to our DOT test where you park a car, and show you know what a stop sign in.

Bingo!!!

We have a fleet of vehicles made since 1996 that produce an engine light if you hit a pot hole wrong - now we are going to rely on the same government madated computers to make us better drivers? No thanks.