GT3RS in Car Brands Hatch England.. check this guy out
09-16-2006, 11:34 PM
#31
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FWIW I spoke to Mike Levitas and Dave Empringham about this last year and both said they prefer a bit of understeer so they can trail brake better and get on the throttle earlier in fast corners (I think thats right). I remember Dave saying you can be a lot more agressive with the car with a bit of understeer. I really like it neutral with maybe just a small amount of understeer, but not much.
09-17-2006, 10:33 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by Larry Herman
Anders, I don't think that many will agree with you on that. Most of the fast drivers that I know want to drive the back of the car, and that means slight oversteer. My GT3 was a joy to drive, as it was neutral on turn-in and would just start to oversteer on track-out. Now, I am working to dial out the understeer out of my RSA, and as I do it, it just keeps getting faster & faster.
I totally agree with Larry on this. I tend to prefer neutral to a tiny amount of corner-entry understeer, at most, withmidcorner stability & some corner exit oversteer. This enables me to unwind steering lock earlier & still get the needed rotation of the car. Unwinding lock earlier means less acceleration is scrubbed off by the front tires, and more speed is gained down the ensuing straight....meaning I can get to power sooner & harder.
09-17-2006, 08:42 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Nordschleife
most F1 cars are set up for slight understeer, interestingly
R+C
R+C
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Larry Herman
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
09-18-2006, 09:41 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by Nordschleife
most F1 cars are set up for slight understeer, interestingly
R+C
R+C
Whichever it was, Ferrari got it banned (no suprise there!)
09-18-2006, 12:05 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by analogmike
>> second brake pedal, which applied the brake to only one wheel on one side so as to reduce understeer <<
Fiddle brake!
They stole that idea from dune buggys.
Fiddle brake!
They stole that idea from dune buggys.
It seems that the extra pedal operated on one of the rear wheels. They decided which one for each circuit, based on the number of corners in a particular direction. As it only worked one way, they couldn't go too extreme towards understeer on the set up.
An interesting point came out of the article in as far as it confirms that David Coulthard used right foot braking while Mikka Hakkinen used left. I presume with this system you needed to right foot brake as you needed the left for the extra pedal. The system wasn't rushed into racing as they wanted to be sure that the drivers didn't get into trouble with teh extra pedal/brake. But they didn't, which is probably another reason why I could never be an F1 driver, because I have enough problems with regular braking!
09-18-2006, 02:39 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by mooty
do most of you heel n toe the way he does it or do you use the right side of your right foot to get the throttle? i do it the way the video shows. but most of the ppl i drove with do it the other way. just curious.
I do not do it that way, my right side foot is fine, whatever works for you though. It seems to work for him so why not, my only thought is the abrupt nature of it and the ability to match revs on downshifts smoothly.
09-20-2006, 12:46 PM
#41
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Hello Guys. I hope that you liked the footage. Thanks for your Kind words. Actually the car was pretty much on the limit during the footage. There was a little time in the circuit if I took more curb and was probably about a second more in the chasis but that was about it. The tyres were steadily deteriorating during the afternoon. In the morning we were approximately 3.5 seconds quicker when the tyres were peaking. I have spent a long time driving GT3's and working with engineers from both the UK and Germany to get the most out of the cars. The driving techinque for the GT3 mirrors that of Cup and Super cup drivers 911 but requires more use of weight transfer than the lighter Cup car.
Thank you Biffo for posting it. I was very interested in all of your comments.
Regards
Steve Rance
Hello Guys. I hope that you liked the footage. Thanks for your Kind words. Actually the car was pretty much on the limit during the footage. There was a little time in the circuit if I took more curb and was probably about a second more in the chasis but that was about it. The tyres were steadily deteriorating during the afternoon. In the morning we were approximately 3.5 seconds quicker when the tyres were peaking. I have spent a long time driving GT3's and working with engineers from both the UK and Germany to get the most out of the cars. The driving techinque for the GT3 mirrors that of Cup and Super cup drivers 911 but requires more use of weight transfer than the lighter Cup car.
Thank you Biffo for posting it. I was very interested in all of your comments.
Regards
Steve Rance
09-20-2006, 03:36 PM
#42
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Welcome to the Rennlist Racing forum. With video footage like that, you will have to spend time here and get involved with the driving discussions. If you reviewed this thread, and the one in the GT3 forum, you will see that some of us like to accelerate as soon as possible through every turn. I have always felt that 911s like to have as much weight on the back of the car as possible, and are not particularly happy with "maintenance throttle". My experience is that unless the car has lots of understeer, you will be limited by the lack of grip in the back of the car, and more throttle means more weight on the back tires = more grip. I do trailbrake, and use it for rotation in slower corners, but when I go to the gas, it is usually to the floor. I find that once I turn in, the car takes a set, and unless I am on the gas to get the rear to stay hooked up, the car really wants to spin. Could you comment on this, and why you drive differently from that.
09-20-2006, 04:53 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by BIFFO
Hello Larry. The trick is to use the unusal weight distribution of the 911 to work for you. A 911 driver can carry a lot more speed into a corner if he loads the nose of the car via weight transfer to counter car's natural tendancy to understeer due to its rear bias. So from the intital braking zone, through to turn in the driver is loading the nose. Once the car is turned in the weight is transfered to the middle of the car via constant throttle to the apex where power is applied to squat the rear ready for the exit. Its the slow and medium corners where the 911 driver does most of his work. If you find the your car is taking power after turn in, it is an indication that it will take more speed on turn in if the nose were loaded. Basically once you put the power on in a 911, the tail will squat and the nose will unload leading to understeer. The trick is to think about where you want the weight to be and to be smooth.
If you have a data logger, try the technique, you will find a lot of time.
There are lots of tricks to pull under braking also but I won't bore you lads with that yet.
Hope this helps
Take care
Steve
If you have a data logger, try the technique, you will find a lot of time.
There are lots of tricks to pull under braking also but I won't bore you lads with that yet.
Hope this helps
Take care
Steve
Hope you don't mind me pasting in your initial answer (courtesy of BIFFO). I got a few PMs right away when it "disappeared".
09-20-2006, 05:30 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by Larry Herman
Well it does make me think. Could it be that I am hanging onto the brakes just a fraction longer, causing enough rotation that my car does not understeer under full power, or do I have it tuned for less understeer than your car, and so it can accelerate harder without understeering?
09-20-2006, 07:22 PM
#45
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I'm surprise no one's brought up the impact of the LSD's on a 911 platform. What are the lockup ratios in a street GT3? In a cup it's 40/60 with 60% lockup when you're off the gas which will definitely rotate a car. Hence I usually keep some form of maintaince throttle into the apex regardless of the speed I'm carrying or whether I'm left foot braking or not. If you purposely want to rotate quickly, a simple lift and stab will do the trick. Of course timing is the key.....