OriginalSterm

My '87 951 has some minor modifications to bump the power up (250 rwhp) and some extra ducting to the front brakes, THAT'S IT. I'm getting into more and more DEs and I'm wondering if this is a good car to be learning on and a realistic car to keep on the track (reliability question more than financial question). A coworker who instructs with PCA recommended an earlier 911, possibly an SC.

Which car would you recommend?

M758

Better is very subjective.
911 SC's are popular track cars, however many PCA folks recommend 911's because that is what they are used to.

I know we talked before about 951 costs, but I forget what your goals are with the car?

1) How much street use?
2) Any speed desires?
3) Want to have fun and go reasnably fast or learn to drive a slow car really fast?
4) How much maintence is too much?

OriginalSterm

Joe, you are correct, we have talked about this before. But for those not familiar...


1) I'd say a 50/50 split between street and DE, I don't mind a slightly uncomfortable ride to and from work.
2) Speed desires are only to take whatever I'm driving around the track and fast and consistent as possible. Top speeds aren't so important at this time. I've hit 140 mph at Watkins Glen in this car, and 120 in an ITA car. One was being driven much better than the other.
3) See above.
4) It's not maintaining a vehicle that bothers me, it's the repeatative replacement/repair to parts in a short time span. ie. power steering components, ball joints/wheel bearings, etc. Brakes/tires/belts are consumable, power steering lines shouldn't be.

earlyapex

Your 951 should make a fine track car/daily driver. I would not switch to an entirely different platform and have to relearn how to drive. Buying an old SC would mean that you would get into the exact things that you wanted to avoid. You would be fixing things!

A well sorted 951 is a beaty to watch on the race track.

Your 951 has one thing a 911 will never have and that's storage space. You can easily drive to the track with all of your stuff and track wheels and tires. The 911 guys have to fabricate some type of roof rack to do the same.

Z-man

A 944-series car is a little easier to drive on the track, and is more forgiving, especially at the limits. At 250-ish hp, you should be fine, but don't expect to be the fastest one out there. (What's the hp ratings of the Cayman & 997 these days?!? )

You can significantly increase your 951's ability by paying some attention to your suspension. (ie open your wallet) Even a mild 'track' upgrade will do wonders.

-Z-man.

ryoji

What do you mean by a little easier to drive on the track?

How so, if I may ask?

JBH

If you really want to learn to drive, I would recommend doing exactly that - drive as many different types of cars as you can. Stay with your 951, develop the fundamental skills, then switch.

I love driving the turbo, but I am mixing in a Formula Ford for variety and to expand my skills.

M758

Not so much weight in the *** end.

Z-man

Yep - that's a big reason why the 944 series is easier to drive than a 911. While the 944 has a 50/50 weight distribution, it has a high polar moment of inertia. The 911 has a rearward weight bias along with a high polar moment of inertia, whereas a 914 or Boxster has a 50/50 weight balance with a low polar moment of inertia.


914's & Boxsters often have a tendance to 'spin like a top,' and the 911 will pendulum off the track back end first. But the 944 will allow a driver to 'catch' a pending spin for a little longer than a 911 does. IE: the 944 will take longer to get spinning than a 911 does.

Don't get me wrong - one can most easily spin a 944. But with a 911, if one starts to slide the back end out too far, the driver must react quickly and properly to 'save' the car from spinning. With a 944 in the same attitude, the driver has a little more time, and typically doesn't need to be as precise in his inputs.

Does that make 911 drivers 'better' drivers than 944 drivers? I dunno. But on the track, I most certainly will take any advantage I can get! If that means I drive an 'almost Porsche' 944, then so be it.

All that said, I must say that the Porsche engineers have done amazing things with a 911 - on paper, it's basic design doesn't make sense in many perspectives. But they sure know how to make that car handle! (What was the quote: the 911 is an awful engineering design perfectly executesd.)



-Z

Hoosier_Daddy

When you step on the gas to accelerate where do you want the weight?

- Behind the rear wheels.

When you go to the brake at the end of a straight, where do you want the weight?

- Behind the rear wheels.

In the middle of a turn, what car is more fun to throttle steer the 911 or the 944/951?

I never understood the panning of such a spectacular sports car design. To me, there is no car that rewards a job well done better and punishes poor form more than the 911.

Do yourself a favor and buy a 911 any year to 1998. You will not have more fun or appreciate the old Dr. more than after you drive a stout air cooled 911 on the race track.

I started in a 944, upgraded to a 951, but once I drove a 911 on the race track that's where it ended. After 6 of the little buggers I never plan on driving anything else.

-- in my humble opinion and off the soap box.

(Hi Z - Hope you buy a 911 soon!)

Jay Gratton

I have always said if you want to go fast for less money a 951 is the way to go. Although it does depend on what model 911 your talking! If you are comparing a GT3 to a 951 then I'd take the GT3. But for bang for your buck there is nothing better then a 951 in my opinion.

John H

There are an awful lot of those pesky 944/951's out there that are really quick around the tracks I frequent. I am a 911 guy so... I will say I had a hoot when I took a 951 I had out at Putnam a few years ago. I spun it twice. Something about throttle oversteer.

It is a different driving style. It just depends on what floats your boat. My mind was made up the first time I used the throttle to steer my SC through part of the Carousel at Mid-Ohio after some prompting (and reassurance) by my DE instructor.

Russ Murphy

Depends on what you have connected to the throttle cable. I seem to recall lots of sh$t eating grins from throttle steering around turns with ridiculous amounts of torque in my 951. That kind of extra torque would have cost me twice the amount I had in the entire car had I tried to add it to a 911.

I'd also like to point out that the fun didn't quit with the 911 just because it became water cooled.

DrJupeman

I have a friend who was pretty quick in his 951. It broke one day at the track and he jumped into a loaner 914. Within 3 turns he had already almost spun twice. It was clear to him at that moment that the 951 was masking his (in)ability. He bought a 914 within a few weeks of that so that he could learn how to drive...

I also had a 951 and moved to a 914. I am ever thankful I did simply because the 914 taught me how to drive. Now, I would not have a car other than a 911.

JayP

Better = how much could I get away with on a track car.
My #1 limiter was price. There are 944s all day for under $4k in my area. Try that with a 911 and you'll find either crap or crap with sheepskin seat covers.

So I have a 944, which is probably good that I'm in a neutral car. I saw a track-prepped 911 at Zims today- made me wish I'd save another 30 years of loose change.