"Better" track car - 951 or 911?
09-04-2006, 05:26 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Chris White
To get a “stock” 951 to be a front runner in PCA you will spend almost as much as setting up a GT class car….sad but true.
to get ANYTHING to be a front runner in ANYTHING, I need about 1000 more track days...
09-04-2006, 10:18 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Chris White
To get a “stock” 951 to be a front runner in PCA you will spend almost as much as setting up a GT class car….sad but true.
At 15psi = 964 smoosher.
09-04-2006, 11:41 PM
#33
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911 all the way. Take it from someone who has owned and tracked both. Here is an ad that I came across the other day that looks like it could be a good good deal. It is only a few hours from you, as well. (no affiliation with the seller what-so-ever, just passing the information along)
"1978 9-11 se
114kmi, coupe, silver/copper int, needs clutch, $8500 Catskill, NY (518) 943-5085 "
"1978 9-11 se
114kmi, coupe, silver/copper int, needs clutch, $8500 Catskill, NY (518) 943-5085 "
09-05-2006, 12:09 AM
#34
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944T all the way. stock to stock cars - give me $7000 for a 944t and give a 911 owner $7000 and lets see who spanks who with what mods, I've passed to many of them on the track.
both cars have their dedicated followers.
both cars have their dedicated followers.
09-05-2006, 11:14 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by DrJupeman
I have a friend who was pretty quick in his 951. It broke one day at the track and he jumped into a loaner 914. Within 3 turns he had already almost spun twice. It was clear to him at that moment that the 951 was masking his (in)ability. He bought a 914 within a few weeks of that so that he could learn how to drive...
You are talking about the guy who used to drive The Mange and used to drive Slow White, right?!?
As said before, the more platforms a person learns to drive on the track, the more tools a driver can develop. It is the folks that have experience in a multitude of cars that tend to be able to adjust to various conditions on the track.
-Z
09-05-2006, 12:49 PM
#36
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A quick look at the stock E track records makes it pretty clear which is the faster track car. The 951 has almost every record although those results might be different if Draper drove a 911.
Jim
Jim
09-05-2006, 11:36 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by JET951
A. wayne, explain how a 911 makes more sense as a track car? in our championship i have been faster then nearly every car up until the 996 gt3, and even still i have beaten the average drivers who own gt3s.
the car has such great balance you can brake where you want almost. i can throw the 951 all over the ripple strips with out even getting a little out of control, i can brake in turns and not even get unsettled. i was even faster then a cayman S with pccb's on a tight circuit. i have driven both 911s and 944s on the curcuits around here and prefer the 951 because of its balance.
this is what i would say...
The better car to track is the 951, the 911 would be by your preference,just because you either have one or like them , but the 951 makes more sense as a track car , the newer the better ...
the car has such great balance you can brake where you want almost. i can throw the 951 all over the ripple strips with out even getting a little out of control, i can brake in turns and not even get unsettled. i was even faster then a cayman S with pccb's on a tight circuit. i have driven both 911s and 944s on the curcuits around here and prefer the 951 because of its balance.
this is what i would say...
The better car to track is the 951, the 911 would be by your preference,just because you either have one or like them , but the 951 makes more sense as a track car , the newer the better ...
Hello Jet 951,
You seem to prefer the 951, i can assure you if a 951 beats a properly prepared 911 it is because,
1. driver talent
2. has a huge power difference.
An average driver would have better success in a 951 than a 911 , this is answered in your own comments regarding driver error . the 911 does punish you in this manner .. the next deal is the 951 is running with a significant power ADVANTAGE !!! as far as the cars are classed . the best 911 in gt3 is seeing 400 -430bhp , a good 951 is more like 475-550 bhp in gt3 ,
Now the subjective , i have experience's with all of the above and find the 911 to be the more thrilling wear it and drive it car , if the 951'are faster, they have a power advantage , are less reliable and does not have that
your are one type of feeeling you get with the 911. the 911 feedback is fantastic as this level . try racing a 500 bhp 951 it will get your attention in a` big way . We have done and raced both types ..
So in closing , the 951 is the easier less punishing car at the lower power levels for a novice to drive , a good well experienced driver will be faster in a 911, the 911 is more reliable ( not that the 951 is unreliable , it is just less so)
has better support structure for racing (read people power ) the 951 is only faster , because of it's power advantage ( this looks like it will change in PCA if the cry, cry get their rule changes ) so in my opinion the 911 is a better car for racing , Just not the only one ..
09-05-2006, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 38D
Both cars have pros & cons. The 951 is faster in stock form than a SC, but the SC is more durable. The turbo can be reliable, but you need to do some work to it. If you ever club race, the SC is the car to own in G. The 951 is just ok in E, where the 964s dominate. The 944 turbo cup is very fast in D, but still needs a good drive to win.
)
09-06-2006, 01:28 PM
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I'm always confused when people say a "911".
Do they mean a 911T,911SC,964,993,996,997.........
Do they mean a 911T,911SC,964,993,996,997.........
Last edited by John Veninger; 09-06-2006 at 02:58 PM.
09-06-2006, 01:43 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by John Veninger
I'm always confused when people say a "911".
Do the mean a 911T,911SC,964,993,996,997.........
Do the mean a 911T,911SC,964,993,996,997.........
but your desired class would determine the start model.
09-06-2006, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by John Veninger
I'm always confused when people say a "911".
Do they mean a 911T,911SC,964,993,996,997.........
Do they mean a 911T,911SC,964,993,996,997.........
Very well, to be more specific.. AIRCOOLED 911
09-06-2006, 07:04 PM
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I blew up three engines in five years in my 944t's, finally sold the last one and will never look back. If you get fast enough, the 944 just won't last without huge budget mod's. Go with a 911 and the dry sump, you won't ever regret it. I was comiserating with a friend about how long it took to pull the engine out of a 944, about two days in my garage, with the car on jack stands. My friend with a 964 says "from the time I start thinking about pulling the engine until it is bolted up to the engine stand is about two HOURS". The most recent attempt at a rebuild was going to require sleeving the block and going with aftermarket pistons...it took FOUR MONTHS just to get the pistons. I sold the car mid-project and just plain gave up. Keep the 944 on the street where they are exceptional cars, use the 911 0n the track. P.S. Gave up on Porsche altogether for a while and bought a formula car with a stock Mazda engine...
09-06-2006, 07:38 PM
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A different experience.
F class 944S2
Bought the car with an old engine. Had it rebuilt, no problems since. Just keeps going, and going
Watched my buddies with their older 911s up in the air all weekend most weekends while we played.
BTW, If you're constantly pulling major components, you get very good at it.
911s and 944s are both great track cars. Figure out where you want to run and what is important to you (initial cost, reliability, cost of rebuilds, mystique...) and choose accordingly.
F class 944S2
Bought the car with an old engine. Had it rebuilt, no problems since. Just keeps going, and going
Watched my buddies with their older 911s up in the air all weekend most weekends while we played.
BTW, If you're constantly pulling major components, you get very good at it.
911s and 944s are both great track cars. Figure out where you want to run and what is important to you (initial cost, reliability, cost of rebuilds, mystique...) and choose accordingly.
09-06-2006, 08:27 PM
#45
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My 944 racing experience.
Started with an old beat to hell 84 944. Car should have been dragged away to the junkyard. Instead I bought it. Bad engine and tranny and all. Hey at least the tub was straight (even with some bondo).
Over the next few years I SLOWLY replaced the engine and got it running again. For the first 2 years of track use SOMETHING always failed. Never very big, but something none the less. I could however fix it all at the track never missing more than 1 session.
Then all of sudden... the car became dead nuts reliable. It took licking and kept on ticking. Rode hard and put up wet and all.
What I think happen is that form the start I had a POS... Even replacing the stuff I could see about to fail did not capture all the stuff I could NOT see. So over the next couple years this stuff failed. Once I got through all the crap the car just runs. No tinkering required. Same is true for most 944 spec cars. They can be problematic early in their racing life, but one fixed properly they take a pounding.
Started with an old beat to hell 84 944. Car should have been dragged away to the junkyard. Instead I bought it. Bad engine and tranny and all. Hey at least the tub was straight (even with some bondo).
Over the next few years I SLOWLY replaced the engine and got it running again. For the first 2 years of track use SOMETHING always failed. Never very big, but something none the less. I could however fix it all at the track never missing more than 1 session.
Then all of sudden... the car became dead nuts reliable. It took licking and kept on ticking. Rode hard and put up wet and all.
What I think happen is that form the start I had a POS... Even replacing the stuff I could see about to fail did not capture all the stuff I could NOT see. So over the next couple years this stuff failed. Once I got through all the crap the car just runs. No tinkering required. Same is true for most 944 spec cars. They can be problematic early in their racing life, but one fixed properly they take a pounding.