mooty

thanx colin.

38D

I don't think anyone is questioning if a 996 is faster than a 993 or a 964, as clearly it is.

DHinkle

A GT3 engine can be installed into a regular 996 though I am not sure why you would want to (if I understood correctly). Mike Grande from LNS Motorsports built a Euro Rally Car by installing a 996 GT3 engine in a 997 S with a 997 Cup Sequential Shifter.

We're bringing (2) 996 C stock cars; LNS Grand Am Cup Car (996) and my 993 RS to Daytona. Stop by and visit with Mike, he can give you great insight on this topic. I personally think more 996's will run in the future as the prices drop.

earlyapex

GAC has been a great proving ground for the M96 motor. There were so many detractors of this motor before it became a winner in the early going of GAC. It's nice to see that after a prolonged dry spell (996/997) that 997 is getting to the winner's circle, proving how potent the engine and chasis combination is in the right hands.

In response to Carlos' comment of putting carb's on a M96 and stuffing it into a early 911. I don't know if the numbers will add up once you add on engine management costs. This has got to be a result of the high cost of 964/993 motors. A 3.6L conversion for a 911 can easily set you back 20K unless you do the work yourself.

JWERION

Does any one know how difficult or if it is feasible to put a GT3 based engine in a 993. I already have a well develped 993 based race car and don't want to start over.

Don Plumley

AFIK, 996/997 GT3/GT2/Turbo motors have more in common with a 993 than a 996. They have the same meaty bottom end/main bearings and dry sump. 996 probably make fine DE cars with the cooler running engine. But for endurance durability, Porsche Motorsport uses a 993 bottom end.

Don Plumley

Feasible - yes. Difficult - yes. You've got to plumb for cooling and switch over to a new engine wiring harness. I seem to recall seeing a few example cars, typically because someone got a smoking deal on a 996 powerplant. I have no idea if there are any geometry problems, but I'm guessing it would be very close.

karlooz

engine management with carbs w/ distributor? i am pretty clueless when it comes to carbs but i didn't think they needed any complex engine electronics. just a screw driver to tune the jetting right?

the carb conversion i mentioned probably won't take advantage of variocam. i don't know the details but was told it was in the works. yes probably 15~20K for the conversion but 6500 for a donor engine and you will have a lot of "extras" going into that motor. how much does a rebuild cost on an air cooled? ~15K right

karlooz

it can probably be done. engine mounting should be similar. you'll have to plumb for radiators but seemingly that's the easy part. engine management is a different story. might be easier to go with motec. i've seen cup motors go for low to mid 20s add 6~8k for motec and $$$ for labour and tuning.

i have no first hand knowledge of this and what i have written is purely an "educated" guess

JWERION

So if I understand this correctly the GT3 engine is based on a 993 case or bottom end? So if I already have a 993 engine in the car with a Motec system a GT3 engine should be plug and play so to speak plus the change to radiators from oil coolers. Is this a correct assumption?

mooty

gt3 bottom end is similar to 993 964 (i am not sure if they are identical).
but to drop a gt3 motor into a 993 is NOT plug and play. i think you need new wiring harness. if you want more hp, do 3.8L rsr conversion on your engine, much cheaper, easier and many race shops can do that for you. btw, when i say much cheaper, it's all relative.

JWERION

Mooty, Thank you for the advise I will call my motor builder and see what he can do.

karlooz

problems is finding a 3.8L and parts for it are increasingly rare. if you do find one it'll be close to the cost of a gt3 cup motor.

mooty

hey, you are welcome.
since i have no money to spend, i must help my fellow rennlisters spend theirs

Ed Newman

There are some serious differences between 996 Mk I, MK II and 997 engines that do impact track life. The Mk I 996's (3.4l) have oil pickup issues which WILL (just a matter of when) take their life quite dramatically. The MK II (3.6l) improved this dramatically with the X51 being even better. I suggest everyone with a stock 3.6 change the oil pan/plate to the X51 or the Brey Krause unit. The 997 carriers the changes foward and is therefore also good. All of the 996 and 997 motors have heat issues and a third radiator is madatory for the really hot days. I have heard the 997's are worse than the 996s. As for comparing to the 964 (GT3 engines), I have 6000 track miles on my M96 and it runs flawlessly and the oil samples come back as good as new. The M96 is not perfect, but the 964 engine has its share of problems too. I think in the end, the 3.6l M96 and M97 engines are a better choice for a cost effective racer/tracker. Just think... when it goes, a whole new crate motor is almost half the price of the GT3 engine.