M758

Well MS lost the race (or 2nd if you will) at two spots on the track.

1) The pit stop. Cost him track position

2) but he may have been able to survive this had he not gone off in Turn 8.
Maybe it was tires, maybe just a driving error, but MS was faster than FA on the first set of tires, even one the second (except for the bobble) and was faster on the 3rd, but no so much as to pull off a pass.

As for Kimi vs Massa? Well with drives like those Turkey Massa is making a case for HIM to replace MS. Not sure if he has the consistancy to stay up front all year or not. Maybe this is why MS was so happy Massa won. More ammo to keep Massa around next year vs Kimi?

mitch236

I've been wondering this for some time. Massa is doing incredibly this year. I wonder how much his success is due to MS's ability to get the cars setup correctly at each event. I mean, it's obvious that Massa has talent, but can he get the car right quickly? I have to think that is one of MS's great talents and left to his own, Massa would flounder a bit. Now I'm confident KR can get the car right. Kimi is the right choice but MS may not want or need him.

Rick964

Bringing a fast drver like Kimi to Ferrari could ensure a constructors championship for the team next year but trading wins and top high point finishes with fast team mates could play into Alonso's hand for the driver's title. MS and KR could end up splitting up to many points and neither may get a solid lead over FA.

mitch236

I predict FA is done. He may win this year but he had a superior car until recently and it will be interesting to see what he can do without the renault. I see him as a cry baby. Not a fighter like MS and KR who despite mechanical issues, continued to support their teams and work to win. Even the Speed crew were stating that he needs to earn respect, not demand it (referring to why drivers get out of MS's way and not his).

tdf360

Too pre-planned? And that's bad? Every driver out there thinks about what they want to do in the first few moments, and MS knows the Renaults have an advantage off the line, so he did what he had to do.

Gary

mitch236

I thought the start was brilliant! MS gets bashed all the time, and sometimes he deserves it but that start was great! This was one of the most exciting races this year.

f1rocks

Not to start a pissing match here but....How is Fernando a cry baby?

He had superior tires last year no doubt. Engine and aero were on par

If you define "a fighter" as a b@stard that parks his car in the middle of the track with a "malfunction" at Monaco or turns in on the other driver to try and win the championship (Villenuve) then I'll take the "cry baby" every time. And I was the biggest MS fan right up until Monaco this year. That was the worst display of sportsmanship in auto racing. Maybe Paul Tracy has a close second...

When Fernando made the swap, much of the Renault race program was still up in the air. To me the fact that he is driving hard to win the series with a team he will no longer be driving for speaks volumes of his drive to be a winner. Ron Dennis doesn't hire someone without drive to be the #1 driver.

I think Kimi will do well where ever and I would agree his inner drive is strong I'd disagree that drivers get out of MS's way because of respect it's more about the consequences if they don't, the wall, wing up their a$$ etc...

gums

Don't forget that MS won his very first World Championship by blatently taking Damon Hill out. Villeneuve was waiting for him when he tried unsuccessfully to take him out, and he stated that it was expected. Countless "brilliant" and blatent blocking manuevers at race starts. Then Monaco this year. There is no question that he is a gifted driver, with all the qualities necesary to accomplish all he has. He has it all, so why does he resort to such tactics which only taint his reputation? It's very unneccesary and will detract from his appeal, if it hasn't already.

pole position

He does not care what you or anybody else thinks about him. He is racing for himself and absolutly believes he is the best . He eats,sleeps and walks F1 racing.

BTW, he did not take Hill out, you need to rewatch . However , he did take the Canadian one hot wonder popsinger out.

gums

BTW, he did not take Hill out, you need to rewatch . However , he did take the Canadian one hot wonder popsinger out.[/QUOTE]

He's entitled to what as he pleases, but we don't have to like him.
But, in the Damon Hill incident (in Australia), he left the track, and rather than leave it (and the championship) at that, he deliberately rejoined the track, took aim and made sure to collect Damon, who went up on two wheels and incurred sufficient suspension damage to retire. He almost succeeded in making it look accidental.
As for the Villeneuve incident (Portugal now, I believe) MS was zeroed in on, set up, and passed in a place where recourse would not be likely, according to JV, "becuase it was expected". MS put a wheel in his sidepod, but only succeeded in eliminating himself. Vill went on to join very select company of Indy 500 winner/World Champions.

M758

Like it or not MS has been ruthless about winning races and championships. A few times this strong desire to win has entered in to gray areas and occasional stepped beyond them. Lest we forget Senna was also quite ruthless and had not qualms about taking out his team make in an attempt to win. To win as many titles as MS has done takes a very strong desire. Most folks really want to win races and win championships. To do it for as many years as MS has and still want more and be willing to almost do anything to get it shows how much desire he still has. Most folks give up long before this. MS never gives up even at time better judgement says he should. I don't think you can be at the top of and sport/profession as competitive as F1 WITHOUT be ruthless to a fault. Nice guys don't always finishe last, but to win and keep winning and still want to win again after what 7 times. You have to be little bit crazy.

f1rocks

I agree completely with your statement and up to Monaco I looked past a lot of his antics "in the name of competitive spirit." Monaco was the last straw for me. I could never imagine Juan Manuel Fangio or even Aryton Senna who was as fiercely competitive and drove a stinker of a car there at the end ever dreaming of parking his car to keep the pole.

Greatest talent of modern F1 (yes), over the top sometimes (yes) but like it or cheer him on to win (big old no)

Someone in an earlier post wrote about other drivers "respecting" Michael....how do you respect someone cheating to win? In PCA if you have a known cheater how is he regarded? Why should MS be considered in any different light? Does our desire to "be like Mike" override the fundamental principle that we should play by the rules?

gums

Yes, I'd have to agree with you on those points, well taken. And no, I haven't forgotten about Senna and his antics. When commercialism takes over and there's so much at stake, things just change. I've seen it in motorsports, and cycling and other sports as well. I just preferred the days of pure sportsmanship. I wonder if Fangio or Clark or Hll Sr. would have been affected like this.