Ok so I now can set the car up with any camber I want thanks to Leda Coilovers and camber plates. Karl Patell suggested getting a pyrometer as a better way to determine optimal camber for the 944 S2 (w/ RA-1's).

Am I correct in assuming that you'd want to get more or less even temps across the tire?? Would that be the same for front and rear??

BTW I'm hearing some people suggest > -3 in the front and maybe 1 degree less in the rear as a starter. Comments?

Thanks.

 

you're on the right track about temps and starting camber.

 

Pyrometers are a great tuning tool. Just make sure you use it properly so that you get the most accurate and consistent results.

 

http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=16

 

Nice link, exactly what I was talking about. I just didn't want to type that much.

 

Hmmm...

I don't know this Patell guy, but Karl POELTL knows his stuff.

When you get your car set up to the point that it feels very good, start to use a pyrometer. You should learn the car by feel before using such tools, in my opinion. You will also see the efficacy of your camber settings in your tire wear. Learning to tell what is up by feel is an essential lesson that a lot of people never learn. Once you get it dialed to your liking, take your readings.

If you get good readings, then you know that your intrinsic feel for set up is good. If your readings are not quite there, then you've reached that point where intuition takes a back seat to numbers (everything gets there sooner or later). If you are way off in temp spread (50 degrees is good), you've got a lot more to learn about car feel!

Everything about this game reaches a point where you just can't feel what is faster, more effective, smarter. Then you get out your tools (Pyrometer, Data Acq, Laptop). Until then, learn!

 

I agree. I had the car at VIR 2 weeks ago and it felt fantastic compared to what I started with. I believe I'm at the point of more or less fine tuning the suspension to maximize what I have and minimize my tire budget!!

BTW thanks for the spelling lesson!!!

 

Great article. Thanks. Now I just have to convince someone to stand at pit in and measure my tires!!

 

you said exactly what i've been trying to put into words when i say "analysis paralysis" ...but you explain it alot better

im having trouble being able to identify if changes i make in the shock absorber are making a difference (more importantly, a difference i can FEEL) and its hard to tell if i can actually feel it or if its in my head.

 

Call me picky! Comes from also having an oft-butchered name.

Sounds like you might be ready. It is interesting to see the result of such tuning. The driver says the setup is great, but the pyrometer says it could be better. Adjustments are made and ties are optimized, and the driver can't deal with it. Then you need to tune the driver to utilize the optimum setup. Sometimes this is successful, and sometimes you have to go back to what the driver can manage. Interesting.

And I hear you loud and clear about the tire budget! Get someone to trade measuring with you. "I'll do yours and you do mine."

 

You can use tools to accomplish a lot of great things, but there's only one way I know of to tune your ****-o-meter: USE IT!

You first need to get to where you can run very consistent laps, while with enough pace to make the car work. Then you can make changes and utilize them in a relatively repeatable fashion to gain comparsions. Shock damping should be left for the very final small tweaks. When you have bars set right, the fine tuning of damping and pressures is much easier to discern.

I can feel one click on my Ledas. It is extremely subtle, but this is often all I am looking for.

 

In the beginning, the best way to learn what adjustments do for you is to take it to the extreme. For instance, start with everthing full soft, do a session then take the front bar to full stiff and go back out. Then do the rear and so on. If you are a very consistant driver you will notice big differences. Then you will know what to expect when you make finer adjustments. Also it will give you some insight about which adjustments you should start with when trying to optimize your setup for a given track.

 

good idea!!!!

i'll try that next time out - full stiff then full soft.

 

Hey;

A very good suggestion from Mitch. When I put a new system on a car, I always set everything very soft. I usually default to a setup that I think will induce some understeer for safety, but everything is very much to the soft end. This sort of tells you whether the most basic element - the springs - are in the ballpark. Then add anti roll bars to the mix to play with balance. Finally, add damping to gain the type of dynamic reaction you are looking for.

Building the structure from the ground up, as it were.