Originally Posted by jimculp

Thanks for posting that.

The only thing I can add is that it's amazing how slowly time goes by watching a video vs. actually driving. Time flies when you're at the helm! Hope the car turns out fine- nice move having the presence of mind to get off track quickly too.

Originally Posted by TD in DC

I would never have experimented like that with someone in the passenger seat. I think I have yet to scare anyone who has ridden with me, with the exception, perhaps, of Dirk D., which I did on purpose

Originally Posted by TD in DC

Kids seem to have a paranormal ability to kick nuts with amazing accuracy.

Originally Posted by TD in DC

I think that there may be two issues going on here that I don't understand completely, which is why I am asking rather than telling.

First, I can accept that I was early. I am not sure that I agree that I was way way early, but that may depend upon someone's sense of how much counts as "way" early. The closer you get to the limit, the less you need to be off to have a problem. It doesn't bother me to hear that I was early. I was experimenting, and I learned a tough lesson from my experiment. At least I am learning something. I still cringe when I hear that it was way, way too early. How early is too early? If I make it through a turn with a line that is earlier than everyone else, then was I too early? I promise you that during the last run on the previous day, I was taking that turn flat out, and my line was not too much later than the fatal one (although it was a little later). My car felt great, and I went through the corner extremely quickly. Could it be that I was too early there even though I was fast and made it through without any sliding? If not, then I can't see how this time was way, way too early. Early? Yes. Way, way early? Maybe, but tough to hear. (I am listening though).

Second, I think that people may be using the term "pinch" differently than I understand it, or that I understand the term differently than others are using it. For example, there are different ways to muff a turn. The most traditional way, I would think, would be too turn in too early, apex too early, realize that you are going to run out of track at track out, think to yourself "oh crap, I am going to wreck" and then consciously, or even subconsciously, increase your steering input to avoid that result, which will cause you to spin. I have always understood that to be "pinching" the turn. I assure you that I did NOT do this. I was never worried about track out. I placed the car where I wanted to place it, so I did not "perceive" my placement as a mistake, and I never made it close enough to track out to even start to worry about running out of track. As Colin accurately observed, I started to rotate well before I even got close to the track edge. My error was in failing to open the wheel soon enough (as opposed to closing it more out of fear). When I went into the four wheel NEUTRAL drift right at the apex, my thought to myself was "careful, careful, do not upset the car with any abrupt changes here . . . you steering input will help you scrub off speed and you will hook back up again with a little less speed." In other words, I conciously made no changes (see the two pictures I attached where you see that I simply didn't change my steering input that I had to enter the turn during the slide). Obviously this was a mistake, but it was not a mistake borne of fear. It was misjudgment borne out of lack of experience in dealing with very high speed skids/spins (I am fine with low and medium speed). When the rear did start to come around, I immediately opened the wheel. You can tell on my video exactly where the rear started rotating by the moment I opened the wheel. It was simply too late. If you guys mean that I "pinched" the turn by failing to open the wheel sufficiently and early enough, I agree 100%. If you mean that I "pinched" the turn by increasing my steering input out of fear that I would run out of track, I disagree. That is not what happened.

In any event, I am listening to everyone's comments and I seriously appreciate the feedback and encouragement. Thanks Jim, Kurt, Colin, Larry, Skip, John, and Gary.

One thing I was thinking about is that I have had several other instructors wanting to ride with me over the last few events since I got promoted to black. They have been very gracious and complimentary. I wonder if I am still going to have a line for my passenger seat now that I have posted this video!!!!

BTW, the second picture was snapped the moment before I felt the rear come around and I opened the wheel in response to the rotation. You can see that my rear wheels are just about to exit the concrete patch, which I think was a big contributor to the change from a neutral drift to a rotation.

Originally Posted by mitch236

When I look at the two pictures, I see more steering input in the second in car camera. Maybe that's where your problem began...

Originally Posted by mitch236

Sorry, didn't notice your reply

Originally Posted by RedlineMan

Colin. In my opinion (and that of others far more epxerienced than I) Todd DID indeed turn far too early, and therefore apexed far too early. I am speaking specifically about the turn in portion, and I did not want that point to be mitigated by this statement.

Turning in is something rather seperate from what was done after the apex. The turn was thrown away BEFORE the apex. It was not salvaged after it (and salvation may not have been possible in that case). These are two different areas for discussion.