chrisp

I currently use a composite (glass) seat. I am thinking of changing to an aluminum seat for fit and installation reasons. They are certainly more cost effective, they are a bit heavier but not much, but what's the consensus on aluminum vs. composite as a seat material? I like composites because they are easier to tweak to get the right flex and strength properties, the material has rebound, and it's a more modern construction. Aluminum is used in all forms of racing but even NASCAR is probably going to have everyone in composite seats in the next 12-24 months.

I wouldn't be buying the new generation full containment seats like Kirkey and Lajoie offer. It'll be something like a Kirkey Intermediate or Deluxe Road Race seat.....leaning towards the Kirkey Intermediate.

RedlineMan

Hey;

I'd stick with the plastic seat if I were you, assuming you have found one that you like. Judging by your statements, I don't think you will like the RR Intermediate at all.

The main reason for going to alloy is TO get full containment. Plastic seats don't offer that yet, for some unknown and unfathomable-to-me reason. The other reason is for difficult fitments. My feeling is you will have to spend at least $750 to get an alloy seat that will meet your needs, and exceed the performance of a good plastic seat.

Geo

There basically is no consensus. In fact, it's something of a Holy War. There are those on each side who have very strong feelings.

In my case I am somewhat tempted because of the wider ranges of fitments of the aluminum seats, but in the end I still like the idea of the flex of the composite seat and I still abhor the back brace required on any seat that isn't FIA homologated.

onasled

I'm going with the Kirkey in my new build. I love the fit of thios seat and in my opinion it's about the safest around. There are rules though and I believe that most rules want it mounted to the role cage and not the floor. I'm not sure about DEs but I think they don't care.

JCP911S

As far as I can tell, the debate is over whether it is better to be held rigidly in place or in a seat that will "flex" and theoretically absorb energy.

Talk to two different people and get three opinions.

The issue with compositis is that yes, they absorb energy (a good thing for it to go into your seat instead of your fragile body), but the also deform, (thus reducing the effectiveness of the rest of the safety equipment) and that the absorbed energy does not stay in the seat, but is put back into your body as the seat returns to its normal shape.

I have yet to see a really convincing study that used credible test date to put the arguement to rest... I think is still comes down to what individual drivers believe.

gbaker

The differences are trivial as either material can be designed to minimize deflection. The principle difference is that "composite" is considered hi tech, so it's more costly.

For the best bang for your buck, get a custom aluminum seat.

Cory M

I wonder why none of the GrandAm Daytona "Prototypes" that I've seen use a seat with more containment. They seem to wrap around the shoulders well but none of them have halos to protect the drivers neck in a side impact. Nascar has been the main driver for full containment seats and given the relationship between Nascar and GrandAm I find it surprising. Is it just because they would make driver changes a little more difficult?

Cory M

..........

RedlineMan

Cory;

I think it is a driver change thing to some degree. Different size drivers also makes it trickier, as halos and shoulder fences for Rusty Wallace are not right for Danika Patrick, etc.

I too am rather surprised by the seating in the sports cars. I think they are going to have to suffer some fatalities before they get really serious about it.

Incidentally, the reason I was down on the RR Inter is that it is EXTREMELY flexy, and would absolutely require a brace at shoulder height. The minimum in my mind would be the Deluxe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the safety aspects, I don't think there is any doubt that full containment is the safest way to seat a driver. That meaning a high degree of restraint, and NO seat movement whatsoever. The most demanding environment we have in motorsport is F1/CART/Indycar. These are essentially full containment seating, with HD foam to cushion. They have proven to be incredibly safe in this most demanding environment.

The highest recorded crash was 139g, in an INDYcar, and the driver was not injured except for a broken ankle from a component intrusion. That is as close to proof for me as I can imagine.

ceboyd

interesting statements... considering I paid LESS for my aluminum full race seats than my prior Recaro name brand pole positions that did NOT work with my HANS..

I have the Ultrashield roadrace deluxe seats in my 993 and love them! They are available in 5 different widths IIRC so I got one size for me (driver) and a wider seat for the passenger side... (many cannot fit into my driver side) but I only went 1" wider because I didnt' want it to look goofy either..

Bill935K3

.

I can attest that the Kirkey deluxe deforms and stays deformed and it is a pretty darn good seat.
This one is from a right side square hit estimated at 110-115 MPH (thank god for tire walls.) Some engineer types from the list estimated 50+ Gs. This means with my fat butt the seat/belts had to deal with containing 11250 pounds plus. (Yes I walked away LUCKY!! had a really stiff neck for about 10 days -I'm sure HANS saved me real injury- and I have a little dent beween my ribs)

My impressions,
•Shoulder bolster is bent strait, I went through it like it was not there.
•Rib section, Held and absorbed nicely BUT was too shallow. Really dug into me as I folded over the top/front of it.
oBelts really stretch a lot!!
•Hip to thigh section did nice job (note how much it deformed)

Due to how far my upper body went into passenger side I feel I would have been hurt pretty bad if it had been drivers side first. IE top bars of cage Vs upper arm/ribs and my head would have been plastered against the window net as tires from the wall try to come through the window. Thus for new car I went with full containment Ultra-Shield. I think some of the new full containment composits look really good but have you guys noticed (in car cameral shots) how much they flex just during lapping??

onasled

Bill, sounds like a right side interior net would be a great idea after what you went through. I think I will install one myself.
Here is a shot of the backside of my Kirkey . Very beafy.

chrisp

Why buy Kirkey over Ultrashield? They seem to be much cheaper across the board. I'm am definitely from the school of you get what you pay for but in this case....why buy a $750 Kirkey RR Deluxe when a Ultrashied Pro RR is $320?

I've seen Kirkey stuff up close but not Ultrashield.

For $775 you can get a Ultrashield Lightweight RR seat WITH Halo.

Thanks for the input guys.

gbaker

What are the seat manufacturers charging for the halo, in general?

onasled

You won't find a better built aluminum seat then the Kirkey 5300, ... IMHO