mrbill_fl

I've also done the open passing, had 2 a two car (pro) viper team on track.... and came in early... like after 3 laps...

Also run late in day with just the typical IT type race cars (miatas, mazdas, 944's, etc), and some 997 / 996 street turbos, and I stayed out... not that big a speed differential. session seemed fine. (then again, late in day only about 15 cars on track)

Edit: you can always request to be moved in to HPDE 3 from 4... should be just an arm band change....

mitch236

I'm not bashing NASA either. In my region they run very well organized, safe events. Time trials are what is new to the mix. That is what I am worried about.

dave morris

Well, for what it's worth, I've run in HPDE 4 with Nasa ... and I didn't see it as a big deal. In fact, I thought it was fun. Everybody seemed to understand and follow the ground rules. There were no incidents. If I saw a significantly faster car coming up in my rear mirror, I just held my line. No big deal.

I don't recall a TT going on at the same time. It was at Sebring and there weren't many cars out on the track.

BrianKeithSmith

I've done quite a few DE's with open passing. But it was restricted to the instructor group and the advanced solo group only. Never had an issue with it. Loved it.

In my opinion, from what I've seen, people generally do a good job of policing an event. In other words, if you are in HPDE4 with NASA, and you see stuff going on that is unsafe, then you should report it. But in my opinion, passing without a signal is NOT unsafe. It allows the session to move more freely especially if you have a mix of HP on the track.

Now if someone is out there terrorizing people that is one thing. But making clean safe passes in safe zones, or designated zones without a signal is OK I think.

Its funny, the PCA/BMW guys seem to be the first ones to balk when they attend an event where there is open passing. I personally know some people who will never attend a NASA event again because they were passed without a signal and it just totally freaked them out. That's fine, just drop to the lower HPDE3 (or equivalent) and don't ruin it for the rest of us .

Of course I've done quite a bit of passing at PCA events without signals, but I don't think the cars I passed even knew I was there, or that I was approaching them until I went by them.

Just my opinion. Open passing is a good thing though.

Brian

svochuck

Interesting ....
Joe said it right ... loose quote""" HPDE 4 is not racing""" it's just not racing. so if someone is faster you let them by and they dont dive in on corners. In NASA RM we are quite strict as to who can be in group 4 and if you dont want to be in 4 then go to 3. group 3 had pretty much the same passing zones as PCA. And students do get parked/"down grouped" if they are not doing it safe.

bottom line.
"I had a great time" !!!!!

chuck

38D

So are there people trying to do a TT in the middle of a DE run? I can see how that might be an issue, as it sort of like qualifying without everyone actually trying hard.

Rene

Chuck,
I am glad to hear you had a good time with NASA. I have had similar experiences with NASA Texas. Chuck I don’t remember you from CBR when did you run at Cabaniss?

Tom W

Many/most groups out here allow open passing in the advanced run groups/sessions. I'm starting to dislike the PCA events with limited passing zones and none in the turns. If you are running in an advanced group, you should know what you are doing and that includes how to pass or be passed in turns and paying attention. If you can't meet those criteria (or don't like them) then you should run in the other groups.

Out here NASA runs a pretty regimented DE with required downloads after each session to discuss who wasn't playing by the rules or who screwed up and why. In many respects it's more controlled than PCA events (at least in 3 and 4, I've never run in HPDE1 or HPDE2). The goal of all sessions is no spins or offs and no issues with bad behaviour. Poor driving is not tolerated.

For me the bottom line is that the driver choses what groups to run with. If you don't like the rules or the driving allowed by the organization, you should try a different group. NASA, like PCA, is a large national organization and different regions do things a bit differently. From what I've seen, the bad rap that NASA gets is completely unwarranted in NorCal.

mitch236

Now that is totally unsafe!


Let's forget about who is running the event, I have said that NASA runs a very safe and fun event.

I don't have a problem with the concept of open passing without signals and TT's in the upper run group, just increase the safety requirements of the cars in those sessions. I think a full race setup should be required.


Yes, they are running TT's in the upper level with DE. What they are trying to do, in my opinion, is to let folks try racing without getting a license or equiping their cars properly. And I don't care what anyone thinks, there will be incidents with idiots trying to race other drivers. The fact is we don't even need this type of event, why not just go racing.

BrianKeithSmith

Well, its better for me to pass them than to wear out my brakes trying to slow down from 150+ waiting on a signal

Brian

Austin

So here's some news everyone can enjoy,

We're working right now on a pilot program to get the Time Trial (TT) drivers their own 20minute session in the afternoons of NASA weekends.

We tried this for the first time at Thunderhill last weekend and it worked great! TT practiced in 4 for the first three sessions and ran the time in their own afternoon 20min session. It fit in well with the combined NASA sanctioned race and DE weekend. We even had separate run groups for a Porsche club, the schedule worked out great and was punctual.


Austin

mitch236

I'm sure this was meant as a joke, right?

RXDOC

Wow, Brian, I GOT to learn how to drive faster. The only time I manage to hit 150+MPH at RoadAtlanta is the back straight, AFTER the black flag station and approaching the braking zone at 10A. And that is with a 500HP TwinTurbo!!!

svochuck

"Chuck,
I am glad to hear you had a good time with NASA. I have had similar experiences with NASA Texas. Chuck I don’t remember you from CBR when did you run at Cabaniss?"

I was driving a YELLOW mustang SVO with 13" wide slicks... if you saw it once you could never forget it. http://www.rothfam.com/chuck/

chuck

A930Rocket

With the great varience in closing speeds and some drivers out to lunch, it's easy to come up behind someone and have them never even see you. Repeatedly. Rather than hitting the binders hard, it can be easier and safer to keep your momentum up and pass them by in a place that is wide enough and safe. And it's not done on a regular basis either.

Brian has 500HP with one turbo.