grand am cup porsche 996 - is it a gt3?......
03-06-2006, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
If the mustang's ran without restrictors (like they did at least the first part of last year) they would walk from the 996's. That engine has an easy 400hp in her.
My guess is they will back off those restriction because the 996's are going to walk all over them when they get to the "twisty" tracks.
My guess is they will back off those restriction because the 996's are going to walk all over them when they get to the "twisty" tracks.
but wait-
looking at the factory specs, however, the 4.6L v8 mustang only makes 300HP. it only has a compression ratio of 9.8:1 whereas the 996 is at 3.6L w/11.3:1 and 320HP. sounds like the 996 needs to be restricted
03-06-2006, 03:25 PM
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Friend of mine has raced in one and it has an easy 400hp with some tuning (not that you can do all of that in GAC) I don't know where you see 300hp but here is the info I have found and it is consistent with what I have heard.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...D01-231667.htm
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...D01-231667.htm
03-06-2006, 03:27 PM
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YUP, looks like politics at work. TRG/pontiac GTO got a "free" lap when a full course yellow was called. how can you not win when you are gifted 1 lap ahead of everyone else.
yes, the 997 looks like it will soon be a front runner. they appear to be really cheap to. i pulled this quote from a news blurb on the grandamerican.com site.
i guess i'll get the oiling kit when i start pulling more than one G around corners
yes, the 997 looks like it will soon be a front runner. they appear to be really cheap to. i pulled this quote from a news blurb on the grandamerican.com site.
Originally Posted by from GrandAmerican.com - SYNERGY RACING
"We have reduced the price of our Porsche 997 GS package to $49,430 for a complete, turnkey car that will still have trackside parts availability and $4,500 contingency package to win. This package will include everything you need to race, including the chassis modifications, ?hilins shocks, PFC brake updates, and three sets of BBS wheels."
i guess i'll get the oiling kit when i start pulling more than one G around corners
Originally Posted by BBailey
The cars are all pretty even at the moment (some are faster on the straights, some better under braking, some faster in the corners, but overall, they are pretty fairly matched at the moment IMHO). It really comes down to the drivers and the team behind them. The Mustang's might get a little bit, but they won't get much. If any car gets much this season it'll be the Pontiac GTO that the Spirit of Daytona team is racing. Pontiac has poured a ton of money into the series and they'll get their race wins one way or another. Yes its political, but this is professional racing after all and politics definitely play a part.
I know we had the Motorsports Oiling kit on the 3.4L that was originally in the car. Cory and the guys at Autometrics could tell you much, much more about it than I could. They built her from the ground up and did a fantastic car. I have no doubts it could content for a podium this season with Cory and any other frontrunning driver behind the wheel (with Cory and I driving, I'd say it could fight for a top 5 with excellent pit strategy). The competition in that series has just gone through the roof over the last couple of years.
I suspect the car to watch out for is the 997. Once a little more development has been done on those cars, they will be very fast I suspect. Had I had the financial resources this season to pick one up, I would have. That said, my partner and I more or less stole the Cadillac we are purchasing (was too good a price to turn down), so we went that direction. Doesn't hurt that he knows the engine in those cars backwards and forewards.
I know we had the Motorsports Oiling kit on the 3.4L that was originally in the car. Cory and the guys at Autometrics could tell you much, much more about it than I could. They built her from the ground up and did a fantastic car. I have no doubts it could content for a podium this season with Cory and any other frontrunning driver behind the wheel (with Cory and I driving, I'd say it could fight for a top 5 with excellent pit strategy). The competition in that series has just gone through the roof over the last couple of years.
I suspect the car to watch out for is the 997. Once a little more development has been done on those cars, they will be very fast I suspect. Had I had the financial resources this season to pick one up, I would have. That said, my partner and I more or less stole the Cadillac we are purchasing (was too good a price to turn down), so we went that direction. Doesn't hurt that he knows the engine in those cars backwards and forewards.
03-06-2006, 03:27 PM
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Karlooz
were you looking at the street Mustang GT for hp ratings? if so that is where you are wrong, this engine is not "showroom stock" like the Porsche, it is a crate engine.
were you looking at the street Mustang GT for hp ratings? if so that is where you are wrong, this engine is not "showroom stock" like the Porsche, it is a crate engine.
03-06-2006, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
Friend of mine has raced in one and it has an easy 400hp with some tuning (not that you can do all of that in GAC) I don't know where you see 300hp but here is the info I have found and it is consistent with what I have heard.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...D01-231667.htm
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...D01-231667.htm
EDIT: thx for the link. the mustang is a purpose built race car with special race engine. the porsche is showroom stock. hmmmm... it's a good thing that the mustangs are restricted.. but what about the e46 m3 with +300lbs penalty weight?
Last edited by karlooz; 03-06-2006 at 03:50 PM.
03-06-2006, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
Karlooz
were you looking at the street Mustang GT for hp ratings? if so that is where you are wrong, this engine is not "showroom stock" like the Porsche, it is a crate engine.
were you looking at the street Mustang GT for hp ratings? if so that is where you are wrong, this engine is not "showroom stock" like the Porsche, it is a crate engine.
hmmmm, so factory "tuning" is allowed for the mustang GT? how is that fair? so why can't the 996 use the x51 package? it's a factory option.
03-06-2006, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by karlooz
i got it off the ford site. they quote 300HP but would that be tot the wheels? what's quoted is usually at the crank. maybe it's a typo
03-06-2006, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
That has nothing in common with the race car's engine except that it is a v-8
03-06-2006, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by karlooz
hmmmm, so factory "tuning" is allowed for the mustang GT? how is that fair? so why can't the 996 use the x51 package? it's a factory option.
TRG running the X51 last year and then claiming they didn't know is pathetic, didn't Buckler do something similar at a PCA Club Race this year?
03-06-2006, 04:22 PM
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Read the series rules guys. The comments here are so far off base is almost comical.
The Mustang runs the 5.0L Cammer engine sold by Ford Motorsports, it also utilizes a host of other parts from there. To say that car can't keep up with a 996 in the corner's shows you know nothing about the cars that run in that series. The Mustangs are incredibly well built racecars sold ready to race by Ford. They are probably the best bang for the buck in the series at the moment at $125k ready to race.
Grand-Am Cup (and Grand-Am in general) isn't about street cars racing as they come off the factory floor, it never has been. Different models are given different levels of prep (within reason) to create a level playing field so the driver's are the deciding factor, not the cars. As much as many Porsche fans would like for their marque to run up front and dominate, that just isn't going to happen in Grand-Am, unless the best driver's are in Porsches and have very solid teams behind them.
Electronics are free for every car in the series. So tuning is, by definition, free for everyone. Again, read the rulebook, its right there in black and white what can and cannot be done. The car's that run in the Grand-Am Cup series, while closer to stock than the Rolex GT cars, are very, very far from stock street cars. They are also typically quite far from the average PCA Stock Class Car even though PCA rules in some ways allow more modifications than do the Grand-Am Cup rules.
The Mustang runs the 5.0L Cammer engine sold by Ford Motorsports, it also utilizes a host of other parts from there. To say that car can't keep up with a 996 in the corner's shows you know nothing about the cars that run in that series. The Mustangs are incredibly well built racecars sold ready to race by Ford. They are probably the best bang for the buck in the series at the moment at $125k ready to race.
Grand-Am Cup (and Grand-Am in general) isn't about street cars racing as they come off the factory floor, it never has been. Different models are given different levels of prep (within reason) to create a level playing field so the driver's are the deciding factor, not the cars. As much as many Porsche fans would like for their marque to run up front and dominate, that just isn't going to happen in Grand-Am, unless the best driver's are in Porsches and have very solid teams behind them.
Electronics are free for every car in the series. So tuning is, by definition, free for everyone. Again, read the rulebook, its right there in black and white what can and cannot be done. The car's that run in the Grand-Am Cup series, while closer to stock than the Rolex GT cars, are very, very far from stock street cars. They are also typically quite far from the average PCA Stock Class Car even though PCA rules in some ways allow more modifications than do the Grand-Am Cup rules.
03-06-2006, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MJR911
Buckler ran a gt3RS motor in a gtc3 cup car at Sebring. Sort of tough to take him seriously as a champion of club racing at dinner as keynote speaker.
What car was this in? Was it a grand-am GT car from the previous weekend's daytona 24? The Grand-Am GT cup cars use stock sealed gt3 cup engines.
03-06-2006, 06:32 PM
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[QUOTE=BBailey]
The Mustang runs the 5.0L Cammer engine sold by Ford Motorsports, it also utilizes a host of other parts from there. To say that car can't keep up with a 996 in the corner's shows you know nothing about the cars that run in that series. [QUOTE]
Where did I say that? I said at the "twisty" tracks the 996 may have a more decided advantage now that the horsepower has been equalized.
As far as the showroom stock comment, the 996 is much closer to a street car than the Mustang is, which (as you obviously know) was developed by Multimatic. My showroom stock comment was in regard to the engine, it is the same basic set up as your run of the mill 996, the Mustang engine is not even close.
The Mustang runs the 5.0L Cammer engine sold by Ford Motorsports, it also utilizes a host of other parts from there. To say that car can't keep up with a 996 in the corner's shows you know nothing about the cars that run in that series. [QUOTE]
Where did I say that? I said at the "twisty" tracks the 996 may have a more decided advantage now that the horsepower has been equalized.
As far as the showroom stock comment, the 996 is much closer to a street car than the Mustang is, which (as you obviously know) was developed by Multimatic. My showroom stock comment was in regard to the engine, it is the same basic set up as your run of the mill 996, the Mustang engine is not even close.
Last edited by Greg Fishman; 03-06-2006 at 06:56 PM.
03-06-2006, 07:07 PM
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Get real chaps, this isn't a racing series, its a marketiing series. The organisers will do whatever it takes to make it look interesting. Nothing wrong with that , it pays the bills.
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03-06-2006, 09:03 PM
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just shootin the ****. nothing serious. i'm just glad we have you to set things straight.
ok, i've read the rules and, under section 7 (rockfan4's attached pic), it appears only those modifications stated are authorized. not much for the 996... adjustiable rear toe links and 2 piece lower control arms. if it's not specifically stated does that mean it's a grey area and go ahead and mod away? section 7 doesn't state allowable ecu mods but you stated that you can tune the ECU.
so regarding your sold 996, what else makes it SO FAR from stock? engine is stock, suspension is open (ohlins, moton, etc.), gutted interior, polycarbonate windows, full welded in roll cage. anything else?
ok, i've read the rules and, under section 7 (rockfan4's attached pic), it appears only those modifications stated are authorized. not much for the 996... adjustiable rear toe links and 2 piece lower control arms. if it's not specifically stated does that mean it's a grey area and go ahead and mod away? section 7 doesn't state allowable ecu mods but you stated that you can tune the ECU.
so regarding your sold 996, what else makes it SO FAR from stock? engine is stock, suspension is open (ohlins, moton, etc.), gutted interior, polycarbonate windows, full welded in roll cage. anything else?
Originally Posted by BBailey
Read the series rules guys. The comments here are so far off base is almost comical.
The Mustang runs the 5.0L Cammer engine sold by Ford Motorsports, it also utilizes a host of other parts from there. To say that car can't keep up with a 996 in the corner's shows you know nothing about the cars that run in that series. The Mustangs are incredibly well built racecars sold ready to race by Ford. They are probably the best bang for the buck in the series at the moment at $125k ready to race.
Grand-Am Cup (and Grand-Am in general) isn't about street cars racing as they come off the factory floor, it never has been. Different models are given different levels of prep (within reason) to create a level playing field so the driver's are the deciding factor, not the cars. As much as many Porsche fans would like for their marque to run up front and dominate, that just isn't going to happen in Grand-Am, unless the best driver's are in Porsches and have very solid teams behind them.
Electronics are free for every car in the series. So tuning is, by definition, free for everyone. Again, read the rulebook, its right there in black and white what can and cannot be done. The car's that run in the Grand-Am Cup series, while closer to stock than the Rolex GT cars, are very, very far from stock street cars. They are also typically quite far from the average PCA Stock Class Car even though PCA rules in some ways allow more modifications than do the Grand-Am Cup rules.
The Mustang runs the 5.0L Cammer engine sold by Ford Motorsports, it also utilizes a host of other parts from there. To say that car can't keep up with a 996 in the corner's shows you know nothing about the cars that run in that series. The Mustangs are incredibly well built racecars sold ready to race by Ford. They are probably the best bang for the buck in the series at the moment at $125k ready to race.
Grand-Am Cup (and Grand-Am in general) isn't about street cars racing as they come off the factory floor, it never has been. Different models are given different levels of prep (within reason) to create a level playing field so the driver's are the deciding factor, not the cars. As much as many Porsche fans would like for their marque to run up front and dominate, that just isn't going to happen in Grand-Am, unless the best driver's are in Porsches and have very solid teams behind them.
Electronics are free for every car in the series. So tuning is, by definition, free for everyone. Again, read the rulebook, its right there in black and white what can and cannot be done. The car's that run in the Grand-Am Cup series, while closer to stock than the Rolex GT cars, are very, very far from stock street cars. They are also typically quite far from the average PCA Stock Class Car even though PCA rules in some ways allow more modifications than do the Grand-Am Cup rules.