SundayDriver

??? Too many assumptions, George. When I had the TT, I changed fluid 2-3 times a year and bled prior to every event.The SRF was in for 4-6 months, justl like the ATE. I detected no difference after that amount of time.

ALso, there is more to brake fluid than boil or not - that is a very simple view. I don't know howlong you have been driving on the track or racing, nor at what level your skills are and how close to the edge you drive. But, I can tell you that different brake fluids have slightly different compressiblilty and have different feels, just like different pad comopunds have differenct characteristics such as initial bite.

George A

Ok, now you are talking about feel vs failure, two different things. Yes, they all feel a little different but the true determination of the quality of the fluid to me is it's failure point. Feel is a personal thing that has no answer, failure is distinct. So for failure, there are only two options, boil or not. I'm not sure how feel came into the subject. BTW, I thought my brake pedal felt the best with Motul 600, SRF does make it a little spongy feeling, hard to explain, but different than the rest.

As for your 993TT experience, you bleed before each event and had fresh fluid. You took away SRF's advantage.

My experience has been short, about seven years now. Nothing special, just enough knowledge and skill to be dangerous. I was any good, I wouldn't be sitting on the computer typing this stuff, I would be getting paid to drive (with hot young groupies hanging all over me, ops sorry its late).

George

M758

Hmm when my super blue filled race car feels a little "spongy" I bleed the brakes. Then it is all better. Nice and hard again.

For me I rotate my tires after each track day so it goes up on jack stands every morning anyway. So bleeding the brakes with a power bleeder is quick and easy. Plus while bleeding it gives me a chance to spot check things.

Also note that on my $13k (in my dreams value) 944, I use $125 brake pads so that $70 can of fluid is expensive.

Hey somefolks may love the SRF. For me it is too expensive. For Mark it not so much as being "too expensive", but he does not see the need given his method of driving and maintence routine.

SRF is certainly not the end all be all of brake fluid.

Some of this discussion is like oil changes. Every 3000 with a standard Dino oil or Every 15k with some "superduper sythenic".

Plenty of guys swear by the 3000 mile change and go with moderatly priced oil. Others see some value in going 10-15k on oil that costs twice to 3 times as much.

kurt M

Vast difference between dino and synthetic oils! Frequency of replacement is the least of it but That is another story.

SRF is different than other fluids in the way it reacts with water. It combines with the water in a unique way that largly negates the waters ability to lower the boiling point. There are other fluids that have very high dry boil points but drop off faster when moisture is absorbed. Using SRF as a frequently replaced fluid does in fact negate the unique aspect of that fluid.

"Feel” Different DOT fluids have slightly different viscosities hot and cold. Some are thicker and stay thicker across the heat range. This might make for a softer feel but in the big picture final pressure values are the same. Some are thick cold but get thinner than average when hot. Soft when cold, sharp or grabby when hot. DOT rules are set for max and min viscosities.

Greg Fishman

I don't think lack of speed was Mark's issue. You don't run in the top 10 at the Runoffs by not going fast enough, but you do learn how to manage your equipment. Maybe Mark was better than most at braking (or rather not braking).

I never had any problems with ATE, if the fluid was relatively fresh. I switched to SRF to give me a little more insurance and decrease the amount of work I had to do on the car between runs, but I still bleed the brakes before every race weekend in my garage. Also I believe Mark and I both had proper brake cooling ducts on our 993's that can make a huge difference.

Mike in Chi

You questioned whether Mark is fast.

He's fast enough to compete for the Nat'l Championship at the SCCA Run-offs.

Check out the drive he had there in '04.

Make no dangerous assumptions, otherwise. He is fast.
In fact, my guess is Mark doesn't use his brakes much at all.

George A

Mike, reread what I wrote. I wrote that he didn't drive his 993TT fast enough. I was kind of taking a jab in fun. I need to learn to use the smiley faces better. I completely agree with you about some people being harder on brakes that others. I'm hard on my brakes, that's why I take care of them.

Greg, cooling is the key. I learned it the hard way. But, it also showed me which fluids stood up to the challenge. It does sound like you are convert.

George

George A

You said that so much better than I ever could. You said you did/do testing. I would be really curious to know some of the outcomes.

George

Professor Helmüt Tester

If you need SRF fluid to keep a soft pedal/boiling problem at bay, then you're using your brakes too much. Yes, it's a mirror view of the problem, but IMO its not a question of "boil the fluid or you're not going fast enough", but rather "boil the fluid and you're slowing down too much".

I use Ford HD, Ate 200/Blue or Castrol LMA in everything in the race fleet. That includes a big, heavy, high HP V8 ex-GT1 vintage car with no brake ducting at all, that I put on the podium twice last season. And...I am not alone...got many friends who run current GT1/GT2 RunOffs contenders (i.e. 'front 2-3 rows') who just use LMA. Really.

If a DE organization requires a fresh flush of brake fluid, what logic can you twist to rationalize a 'once a year' interval ? Some things you just DO because the organizer asks.

kev

There's alot of ways to skin a cat, folks. That said, my intuition leads me to believe that SRF is a better product that brand X, based on my basic understanding of the chemical properties involved in stopping a car.

Weissach and cost effective should never be placed in the same sentence, but for the record, the spec fluid in the gt3 Cup cars is SRF. Not ATE, Motul or AP. Change interval per manual is full change after "short track race". I'm not aware of any Castrol sponsorships nor am i privy to Porsche boardroom decisions. For the 993 Cups, the spec fluid was ATE. I'm sure Porsche has tried all the fluids under the sun and probably then some. Good enough for Weissach, good enough for me.

George A

It's called education. You educate them on the qualities of the fluid. There's no twisting needed. Why do you think they have that requirement? IMO, that requirement is really for novices that don't even know what they have in reservoir. That's a different conversation all together. DE's are different animal.

We have a private track down here of which I am a member, I get lots of track in the car. Lots of Saturday/Sunday morning sessions and afternoon with the family. It gets brutal during the summer on the car in the Texas heat, why not use the best?

George