Larry Herman

Todd, I think that you can throw statistics at her all day and it may not make any difference. People are injured or die all the time enjoying their lives. Dan (my oldest son with the 951) just broke his nose quite badly snowboarding. He does not plan to quit. I have been hurt riding my bicycle. I know of people who have been shot hunting, hurt on motorcycles and bicycles, injured racing, even drowned swimming in the ocean. Does that mean you shouldn't go to the shore? One thing is for certain, you cannot live in a cocoon trying to protect yourself. You will be miserable.

And that is really the issue for your wife. Does she want you to stay the happy, fun-loving guy that she married, or does she want to "protect you" to the point where you no longer enjoy your life, and blame her for it? Your marriage won't last under those conditions. Life is all about risks, the more you take (with-in reason) the greater the enjoyment.

RSRRacer

We can all sit around and give list of activities which are "more dangerous" than DE/Racing.

Don't kid yourself, it a VERY DANGEROUS hobby, even with the best car and the best protective gear.

It is probably a losing battle to try to justfy participation because its less risky than "skydiving" or "skiing".

My two cents.

VaSteve

I bought a nice road bike (bicycle) last year because I always wanted one. There are a lot of good roads to ride on but with a lot of big pickups (F-350 disels and the like) so I'm probably more wary about that hobby. Read their forum www.bikeforum.net. Nearly every 2 days, someone posts that they got hit by a car.

I read there about a guy in Vienna, VA that was killed by a truck at an intersection with the bike trail.
I had a conversation a week or two later with a life long friend who's friend's husband was killed while biking. Same guy. Chilling.
Will I still ride? Of course!

There's probably no way to convince the unconvincible that you are taking safety to the best of your abilities. Has Lourdes ever been to an event and seen the safety equipment in use? Has she seen how the procedures (pit, passing, flaggers, etc.) work? Maybe that would help. Wheel to wheel racing is probably a different matter, but you might gain some leverage through this exposure.

sjanes

Agreed. I'm not so convinced on the "safter than the freeway" thing. I drive on the freeway with my wife and 2 year old son in the car. I won't drive around in the red run group at the speeds we go with either of them in the car. Would you? (that's a general "you" and not directed at any single person).

My wife doesn't bring up the safety aspect of DE. Probably because she asked me to give up the hobbie I was doing before this: skydiving. I'd rate DE as the second most dangerous think I do. The first is my daily communte by bicycle on city streets. I do that every day.

Larry Herman

Hey Todd, you could always do what I did. When the wife would make noises about stopping racing, I told her that it would give me time to take up a new hobby & lifelong desire - FLYING!
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She then tells me to enjoy my racing.

dave morris

I agree with RSRacer.

carreracup21

I participated in the Rolex 24 at Daytona. During the testing weekend for that event in early Jan., Chad McQueen of Tafel Racing, and the son of Steve McQueen, lost control of his 997 GT3 Cup and went into the outside wall exiting the bus stop. Despite use of a HANS device, he sustained a cervical spine fracture, and as of race weekend, was still in the Hospital on a ventilator. Long term hopes for his recovery were not optimistic and he may suffer from paralysis. We all send our prayers for him and his family that he may get through this. It was a reminder that this is indeed a dangerous sport. Chad was doing nothing more than any of us do everytime we strap ourselves into a car and hit the track and it could happen to any one of us.

Z-man

I bet Lourdes feels the same way about this track stuff as Kim, my wife does: Kim has absolutely NO DESIRE to get involved with it. The problem is that if you force your wife to do something they don't want to get involved in, they'll have a negative attitude towards it and won't 'get it.' (Self fullfilling prophecy). Second problem - they'll force you to get involved with their hobby. Right now, my wife's into Yoga. And quite honsetly, my karma's centered just fine without having to stretch and bend and snap my body in two!

Ok, here's my background with how Mrs. Z-man feels about my driving addiction, er, hobby, I mean:

1. I started out autocrossing. Kim came out to see what it was all about. Her conclusion: the only reason for wearing a helmet is because it flatters the male ego!

2. I started DEing a year after - while she was concerned about the dangers involved in driving a car at high speeds, she saw that I leave alot on the table and drive with my head. Once at the Glen, a car smacked into the divider entering the pits - right in front of Kim. While I was out on the track. Didn't phase her really.

3. Throughout the years, I have always focused on upgrading the safety equipment in the car, and in a sense, the safety equipment of the driver! I have a rollbar, 2 FE's, harnesses, racing seats, and new this year, I'll be using an R3 H&N device. This focus on safety is paramount when involved with a dangerous activity - minimize the risks. Kim sees this and knows that I take this track driving seriously.

4. As I progressed through the ranks, Kim did voice a little more concern regarding the safety and the risks. This year, I ran in Black and Pink run groups, and at some events, in the combined Black/Red run group. Playing with the 'big boys' brought some concern to her. I assured her that I feel safer running with these guys since I am familiar with their driving, and as such, their driving is far more predictable than what I've experienced in the lower run groups. It's a trade off, really - the lower run groups are less predictable, but run at lower speeds, while the upper run groups are faster, but more predictable. I'd rather be in the latter run groups myself.

5. This year, I've been asked to be an instructor candidate. (Yahoo!) This has brought more concern for Kim, because now, I'll be in a car that she feels I won't have control over. She worries about the driver who doesn't understand the 'Don't drive at 10/10ths' ideal of DE's. She's afraid that I'll be paired up with a reckless driver. I have assured her that if that were the case, I can ask to be moved to a different student. I've also told her that as an instructor, I need to be able to 'reel the driver in' that I should be able help the student drive safely on the track, and as such, I should have more control than she believes.

I think many a spouse feels the way Lourdes and Kim do - and like TD, I am fortunate that I have a wife who supports my hobby and loves me too!

-Z-man.

wildbill846

I'm curious about the serious injury/fatality rate of club racing versus street motorcycle riding. I bring this up because for a brief period, my employer, in an effort to reduce off duty accidents banned participation in several of what they determined to be "risky" activities to include any motorsports, but allowed motorcycle riding. They have since rescinded the banning, but it made me think of how they chose what was risky or not.

tlark

I think most of us DO recognize the risk and I for one after seeing friends pass away on the track know I increase my chances on the street vs. the track with respect to saftey. I feel comfortable w/my ability and keep my head within reason of what my car is telling me and what my brain wants to do. Anyone can rationalize DE/Racing and its risks and statistics are not meant to marginalize in my book, it does help my personal opinion given the miles off track I have driven and been witness to. My comfort level on the track is high but I also know my limits......it never hurts to prey before my run group hits the track too.

VaSteve

"Prey" on what??

TD in DC

First, thanks to all who are participating.

Second, I suspect that not everyone here is thinking about the term "inherently dangerous" the same way. Most activities can be life threatening if you do not take them seriously or if you are stupid about engaging in the activity. For example, I wouldn't call drying your hair with a hair dryer inherently dangerous, but you easily could die if you try to dry your hair while soaking in the tub.

If you take all potential safety precautions (which I have), you take driving seriously (which I do), then it seems to me that the main risks from driving would arise from: (1) brain fade/physical breakdown (both of which you can reduce by paying attention to your own condition); (2) mechanical breakdown of your own car (which you can reduce by taking safety inspections seriously); (3) mechanical breakdowns of other cars (e.g., oil on the track, etc . . over which you have little control); (4) other people hitting you, or you hitting other people due to where they are on the track (again, you have little control over this); (5) unexpected changes in track conditions (e.g., weather, oil, dirt, etc . . . on the track); (6) animals on the track; and (7) driving over the limit (which you can control, even if it might make you "slow" in a racing environment).

Is the likelihood of one of these things occuring so high that the sport can fairly be described as inherently or very dangerous?

Even if occurance of one of these events is not likely, is the likelihood of serious injury or death once the event occurs so likely that the sport can fairly be described as inherently or very dangerous?

Or, is it, like many other sports, one that is not really inherently dangerous but one in which you could be seriously injured or killed if you do not take it seriously or if you are seriously unlucky?

I personally am a type A driver who tries to drive intelligently, but who believes that life in general rewards those who are willing to take intelligent risks. I look around and see those who are successful in business and in life generally, and they tend to be those who take risks that few others are willing to take. Although I think it is stupid to take unintelligent risks, I am certainly not risk averse at all. Also, I obey the rules that apply to the event in question (e.g., I treat DEs the way the organizers ask us to treat DEs, and I am seeking to comply with all applicable racing rules). I am comfortable that I am taking all the steps to reduce the risks associated with the track to the greatest extent feasible, but I am trying to figure out a way to think and talk about that risk in a fair way in hopes that I can make my wife and family more comfortable.

Greg Fishman

I did not know his injuries were that severe. Grand Am's website didn't disclose all of that info. Sorry to hear and hopefully he will recover.

bowmanm98

You should check with your life insurance company to see if you are covered for DE events. I know that your life insurance won't pay if you go sky diving most likely and you don't want to leave your family without that safety net.

TD in DC

Apart from murder by a beneficiary, my life insurance covers everything, including suicide. I also have selected a very high benefit, so my family should be more than fine financially should I prove to be one of the unlucky ones.