Rick964

Don't you think merely specifying a H&N device and not requireing it to meet a minimum standard open them up to even more liability? All other safety equipment in the car is req'd to meet certain standards by almost every governing body around why no this one too? What happens when there is no min. standard req'd and some guy dies while wearing a foam neck collar - because that is a H&N device, or uses some HANS replica device he made in his garage out of fiberglass? I'm no lawyer either but these seem to be bigger issues from a CYA point of view.

4master

Rick,
My point is that they should not specify a H&N restraint. In my humble opinion, that opens up an organization to more liability because the organization is saying that one is better than the other and when a driver is seriously injured or killed wearing that device, his family could claim that another device (or no device) would have prevented the injury or death. Beyond certain basic safety requirements (cage, belts, helmet, suit, gloves and shoes) why mandate a H&N restraint? Leave it to the driver whether he wants to wear one or not. If a driver is fool enough to build one in his garage and he can get it through tech, that's his dumb a$$ on the line.

Again, no amount of safety equipment will remove all risk of injury or death. If you wear a HANS, great. If I wear an Isaac, great. If Bob wears an R3, great. Any of these devices will reduce the risk of a BSF.

And for the record, a foam collar is not a H&N restraint - it's merely a support.

See you in Sebring.

Scott Foremaster/1985.5 I class 944/#909/Partridge Family Racing

38D

Gregg - why don't you just partner with a belt company to make a belt/Isaac combo that has a single point of release? Could easily be done with some cables (ala kill switches) that run up the outside of the belts to the Isaac connect points. Then you just flip the belt disconnect, and the Isaac falls off too.

gbaker

Sush! Didn't you get the memo?!

RedlineMan

Hey all;

RE: Release/egress - I feel the single release clause is crap. I own a HANS. I get tangled on a fairly regular basis, and I don't even have a cage. I have cut my helmet halo shorter on the driver's side to help with this. If I get to the point where egress issues bother me greatly, I will purchase the release tether system... just in case. I don't see the R3 as being substantially different in this case, notwithstanding Kurt's sage emergency concerns.

RE: CYA - I feel the best way for recreational/amateur groups to accomplish the goal of keeping drivers safe re: H&N devices is to provide guidance, not decree. I do not feel PCA should mandate a certain device, for instance. I do most certainly feel that they should give members the information to make their own informed decisions. Post the performance specs of all known and "credible" devices, and you will CLEARLY see whether you want a HANS, Isaac, R3, Wright, or G-Force.

Where PCA is concerned, I am trying my damndest to make it happen.

Rick964

Interesting how everyone is willing to accept minimum required standards for "old school" safety devices - harnesses, helmets, etc. but not for the new inventions. Does anyone think a racing body such as PCA and others should not specify a min. standard for helmets? I'm sure we'd see people showing up with bicycle or skate board helmets at DEs. Why is it okay to madate helmets, seat belts, seats, driving suits, gloves, fire extinguishers but not H&N devices? Why should governing bodies allow everyone the freedom of choice to even use or not use these devices if they can save lives?

While the new technology H&N devices certainly come in many forms and styles that does not negate the fact that there are standards out there for them. Since there are safe devices that do not meet the standards I think we need to lobby the standards bodies to create new and better standards not just ignore setting requirements.

kary993

You state the same statement each time. Some do not believe a device should be mandated, some believe they should be mandated but left to the user to select, while others want it mandated both to use and which device. The bottom line here is the standard being used is flawed as outlined in this thread. A single release point is not saving anyone, getting trapped because of a device could kill someone even if it is a single release device. The standard needs to be changed to be reasonable and provide value. The single release clause does not provide value. The Isaac provides value without danger and it performs a higher safety levels, yet it is possible these club bodies might eliminate it from their member possibilities for a device. That is plain wrong!

38D

I actually think the single release does provide value. Having been inverted, I can tell you it's hard enough to undo the belts, let along something attached to the helmet. To me, the flaw with the current spec is that is does not dictate the ease/time of egress for exiting the car.

mitch236

The good thing about the HANS is that all of the workers are very familiar with what it is and what difficulties it presents. The Isaacs device on the other hand............

OriginalSterm

In some cases, don't the emergency workers just cut the harnesses/straps anyways? How would what H&N system someone is using matter is these cases?

Geo

Hmmm.....

Hadn't thought about being inverted. I have to wonder about potential for harm if someone was inverted with an Isaac and forgot to undo the QR on the Isaac before undoing the harness.

mitch236

Yes, but if they cut below the adjustment buckle, the Isaacs would be stuck.

Sanjeevan

That is very interesting,....what happens if you are inverted and undo the harness BEFORE undoing the isaac. I would think the rollers will roll down the shoulder belts and not choke someone. I would like gbaker to chime in on this.
Thanks.

Z-man

Interesting disucssion.

How does being inverted effect the HANS device as well, I wonder? (IIRC, Colin didn't have his HANS yet when he flipped his '14.)

My guess is that units that are attached to the body, and are flush with the body (like the R3) are easier to manage when in 'not ideal' situations like being upside down, or leaning on one side.

-Z-man.

Benton

I remember at the Indy 500 practice last year I believe, Sam Hornish, Jr. couldn't get out of his flipped car because his HANS was sticking into the infield grass like a shovel. Now add fire and semi-consciousness to the mix, and you have a pretty tough situation on your hands (not that this applies to sports cars).

I plan on buying a system before I start racing the 928, but I have no idea what I will buy yet. No options are ideal for my situation, and it seems like many people are in a similar position. I'd like a certified ISAAC.