Pondering Time Trials vs. Mods
01-07-2006, 06:24 PM
#46
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Pretty interesting that I have 320 mod points from a base of 450. 770 points in the TT5 class. Don't exactly understand what this means yet as I do not know what TT5 class cars run in terms of time at these tracks, anyone know where I can look up any results by class for this system? I run 1:42's at Laguna, 1:49's at Infineon, and 2:04's at Buttonwillow. Is that competitive in the TT5 class under this system?
01-07-2006, 09:48 PM
#47
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last year's event results for TT5 @ buttonwillow 2:10.879 but your time of 2:04s would put you smack dab in the middle of GT3S (2:02.635) and GT4S (2:07.34).
it looks like you would be VERY competitive in TT5.
SP is always rained out and LS times in the 1:42 for EX - modded 993's. 2004 classification, no "TT" classification.
it looks like you would be VERY competitive in TT5.
SP is always rained out and LS times in the 1:42 for EX - modded 993's. 2004 classification, no "TT" classification.
Originally Posted by kary993
Pretty interesting that I have 320 mod points from a base of 450. 770 points in the TT5 class. Don't exactly understand what this means yet as I do not know what TT5 class cars run in terms of time at these tracks, anyone know where I can look up any results by class for this system? I run 1:42's at Laguna, 1:49's at Infineon, and 2:04's at Buttonwillow. Is that competitive in the TT5 class under this system?
01-07-2006, 10:40 PM
#48
Originally Posted by earlyapex
http://www.ipb-autosport.com/
They are a GGR TT sponsor and located in Sacto.
In this excercise to analyze the new GGR TT classification system, let's not forget that safety should be a priority. A base 996 is a fast car that needs to be respected. I'm not picking on you, bowman, but Sparco Roadsters are touring seats and don't carry a FIA or TUV certification. I worry that in the quest for the right car class and faster times that safty is taking a back seat. I would not TT a 996 using R-comps or slicks without a good race seat and at least a roll bar. I DE'd my 40th with a Sparco Rev seat, harness bar, and 5 point harness using MPSC's and found the car to be wickedly fast, easily getting into 5th gear at the end of the straight at TH. I quickly realized that a small mistake could be punished by a lot of damage. This is why I'm running a 78 SC! The 40th is now back to stock. So this is what I recommend for the TT.
1. Stay with street tires unless you are willing to add enough safty items to your car that you feel comfortable if you his something hard or roll it.
2. Don't mix harnesses and stock seats. The seats were not designed for them. You don't know what will happen in a crash.
NASA events in my experience are run with an eye on safety but much more relaxed than a typical PCA event. The drivers in the upper groups are faster and more aggressive and you may be mixed with racers tuning their cars for their sessions. You will get passed everywhere on the track.
I'll see you at Infineon!
They are a GGR TT sponsor and located in Sacto.
In this excercise to analyze the new GGR TT classification system, let's not forget that safety should be a priority. A base 996 is a fast car that needs to be respected. I'm not picking on you, bowman, but Sparco Roadsters are touring seats and don't carry a FIA or TUV certification. I worry that in the quest for the right car class and faster times that safty is taking a back seat. I would not TT a 996 using R-comps or slicks without a good race seat and at least a roll bar. I DE'd my 40th with a Sparco Rev seat, harness bar, and 5 point harness using MPSC's and found the car to be wickedly fast, easily getting into 5th gear at the end of the straight at TH. I quickly realized that a small mistake could be punished by a lot of damage. This is why I'm running a 78 SC! The 40th is now back to stock. So this is what I recommend for the TT.
1. Stay with street tires unless you are willing to add enough safty items to your car that you feel comfortable if you his something hard or roll it.
2. Don't mix harnesses and stock seats. The seats were not designed for them. You don't know what will happen in a crash.
NASA events in my experience are run with an eye on safety but much more relaxed than a typical PCA event. The drivers in the upper groups are faster and more aggressive and you may be mixed with racers tuning their cars for their sessions. You will get passed everywhere on the track.
I'll see you at Infineon!
01-08-2006, 12:41 AM
#49
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I'm not trying to discourage from running with NASA. Their events are generally safe, but I've seen more "offs" during NASA events than any other group that I've run with. Their reaction has been very subdued to these incidents as they were single car offs with no injuries. The atmosphere is of a race organization running a DE versus a car enthusiast group running TT and AX.
I want you to have fun competing against your friends and not get sucked into the mod thing. I want you to be safe at the same time. Your car is faster than you can drive it in its stock form so don't worry about making it faster. You'll find yourself getting faster with track time and you may need to seriously upgrade your safety equipment as your speeds increase. TC Design makes some very nice and reasonably priced roll bars.
http://www.tcdesignfab.com/
I'll see you guys at the track!
I want you to have fun competing against your friends and not get sucked into the mod thing. I want you to be safe at the same time. Your car is faster than you can drive it in its stock form so don't worry about making it faster. You'll find yourself getting faster with track time and you may need to seriously upgrade your safety equipment as your speeds increase. TC Design makes some very nice and reasonably priced roll bars.
http://www.tcdesignfab.com/
I'll see you guys at the track!
01-08-2006, 01:16 AM
#50
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funny. the most "offs" i've seen was at the TMR event at laguna seca. it was usually the ricer mobiles 
i just think it's a bad idea to be thrown into NASA HPDE4 if it's your first event with them (PRC/NASA not included). maybe a good idea to even go to the lower groups. this is not a reflection of one's driving but rather a way to get a felling of the group's "mindset", if you catch my drift
i just think it's a bad idea to be thrown into NASA HPDE4 if it's your first event with them (PRC/NASA not included). maybe a good idea to even go to the lower groups. this is not a reflection of one's driving but rather a way to get a felling of the group's "mindset", if you catch my drift
Originally Posted by earlyapex
I'm not trying to discourage from running with NASA. Their events are generally safe, but I've seen more "offs" during NASA events than any other group that I've run with. Their reaction has been very subdued to these incidents as they were single car offs with no injuries. The atmosphere is of a race organization running a DE versus a car enthusiast group running TT and AX.
I want you to have fun competing against your friends and not get sucked into the mod thing. I want you to be safe at the same time. Your car is faster than you can drive it in its stock form so don't worry about making it faster. You'll find yourself getting faster with track time and you may need to seriously upgrade your safety equipment as your speeds increase. TC Design makes some very nice and reasonably priced roll bars.
http://www.tcdesignfab.com/
I'll see you guys at the track!
I want you to have fun competing against your friends and not get sucked into the mod thing. I want you to be safe at the same time. Your car is faster than you can drive it in its stock form so don't worry about making it faster. You'll find yourself getting faster with track time and you may need to seriously upgrade your safety equipment as your speeds increase. TC Design makes some very nice and reasonably priced roll bars.
http://www.tcdesignfab.com/
I'll see you guys at the track!
01-08-2006, 12:03 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by karlooz
last year's event results for TT5 @ buttonwillow 2:10.879 but your time of 2:04s would put you smack dab in the middle of GT3S (2:02.635) and GT4S (2:07.34).
it looks like you would be VERY competitive in TT5.
SP is always rained out and LS times in the 1:42 for EX - modded 993's. 2004 classification, no "TT" classification.
it looks like you would be VERY competitive in TT5.
SP is always rained out and LS times in the 1:42 for EX - modded 993's. 2004 classification, no "TT" classification.
If anyone is interested in seeing the BRI results you can look here for San Diego for both auto-x and time trial:
Autox:
http://web2.pcasdr.org/pca/pca.php?database=
Time Trial:
http://web2.pcasdr.org/pca/pca.php?database=tt
01-09-2006, 04:58 PM
#52
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Hey guys,
It's really interesting for me to see the GGR point system debated here. I was one of the guys who worked on it, so it is rewarding to finally see it go into effect. While it has been debated before, this is the most productive and least "political" debate I've seen! Congratulations.
I know there are definitely kinks to be worked out, not the least of which is how many base points the newer cars (especially the TT and GT3) should have. Also, we knew that the system would break down at the very, very highly modified end of the spectrum (like Hank's car) which is why the PCA club racing rules take over after 650 mod points.
I encourage you to come out and run a couple events to see how the competition looks for you with your car(s) as they stand right now. See where you fall based on your car's and your own capabilities, then adjust as appropriate to your tastes and desire for competition. Also, since this is the very first year for the new rules, expect to see many proposals for base point and mod point changes at the end of the year. I'd hate to see someone pour a ton of money into a mod or set of mods they believe to be "light on points" this year to gain an advantage, as it is likely those mods will be "properly punished" with points in the near future. A good guiding principle might be, "if the # of points for a given mod seems too good to be true, expect it to get more points soon"
I look forward to seeing you all out at Infineon and all the other TT's this year.
Cheers,
Dean
It's really interesting for me to see the GGR point system debated here. I was one of the guys who worked on it, so it is rewarding to finally see it go into effect. While it has been debated before, this is the most productive and least "political" debate I've seen! Congratulations.
I know there are definitely kinks to be worked out, not the least of which is how many base points the newer cars (especially the TT and GT3) should have. Also, we knew that the system would break down at the very, very highly modified end of the spectrum (like Hank's car) which is why the PCA club racing rules take over after 650 mod points.
I encourage you to come out and run a couple events to see how the competition looks for you with your car(s) as they stand right now. See where you fall based on your car's and your own capabilities, then adjust as appropriate to your tastes and desire for competition. Also, since this is the very first year for the new rules, expect to see many proposals for base point and mod point changes at the end of the year. I'd hate to see someone pour a ton of money into a mod or set of mods they believe to be "light on points" this year to gain an advantage, as it is likely those mods will be "properly punished" with points in the near future. A good guiding principle might be, "if the # of points for a given mod seems too good to be true, expect it to get more points soon"
I look forward to seeing you all out at Infineon and all the other TT's this year.
Cheers,
Dean
01-09-2006, 06:01 PM
#53
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Dean: So you and Laura will be running the 911 again and not totally abandoning Porsche ownership for the Miata? As you know, I'm a firm believer in the point system. I think it will be fun to spend some time this year doing some coparative testing to add to the debate regarding the points allocated to various mods.
As you know, I'm a firm believer in the point system. I think it will be fun to spend some time this year doing some coparative testing to add to the debate regarding the points allocated to various mods.
