Amen, brother.

 

Or they haven't wrecked yet so they have no idea how terrified they really should be.

 

THe downhill at LRP is one turn that gets my attention... in my car it is just a slight lift to set the nose at turn-in, and flat again... but just barely. Turn-in is a visual, and it is really bumpy so it is hard to focus for about half a second..... its almost like going through a tunnel...

When you see that apex in the right place its a real relief.

 

You might want to go look up some of the lap times of the posters on this thread before making such a blanket statement.

 

And if you hit that turn just right, it's like you're coming out of a slingshot onto the main straight. One of my favorite turns at LRP. (The uphill's another! )

Regarding not being scared = driving slow - I don't think that's a one to one relationship. I wonder how many times pro racers get 'scared' on the track? I suspect not too often. That doesn't mean they aren't aware of the dangers - they just don't let the dangers distract them from the goal.

Alot of how one approaches the 'edge' depends on the venue one is driving in. It is a DE? Club Race? SCCA Runoffs? Semi-pro or pro event? (Who's paying for the damages also factors in)

Yeah, there are times when I scare myself on the track, but I try not to make it a habit. There are plenty of times when I tighten my sphinkter, but I really don't consider that scaring myself. And I admit to leaving some on the table, but in DE, there's no need to be going 10/10ths -- while at times I may have brought it up there, I'm more comfortable at 7/10ths or 8/10ths, and upping the ante a thousanth at a time. Before I know it, my 8/10ths has become my 7/10ths, and I'm ready to take it up a notch again. I know I can be faster out there, if I take my car closer to the edge, but (patting myself on the back), I'm not someone you'd consider to be a slow driver either!

IMHO, there are two types of drivers out there: those who will walk right up to the edge of a cliff, hang their toenails over the edge, and fearlessly look over the precipice. Then there are those who approach the edge more cautiously - taking one step at a time, eventually making it to the edge. Which one is the 'better' driver? It isn't a question of better, it's a question of what works better for the driver. You certainly can't expect a 'cliff-edge walker' to be comfortable staying a few steps away from the edge, nor can you expect a slow stepper to walk on up to the edge. Oh, and BTW, since our ability is always increasing, keep in mind that said edge in this analogy is always moving away from the person!

Just my $0.42,
-Z-man.

 

I agree. Gene Hahn, an NNJR instructor who sometimes posts here is a great example of someone who doesn't get easily scared, yet drives blisteringly fast.
I mean 'ol Satan himself could be driving alongside Gene, and Gene would pass him, and give him a friendly 'thank you' wave as he left Lucifer in the dust!

-Z.

 

My comment was an either/or/both comment. Lap times have no relevence if you are FOS. You could also be slow and honest about it. Perhaps you are slow and FOS. If you say you're never scared in a car on the track you're FOS.

You can't be honest and fast and state that you're never afraid. Doesn't mean you have to be scared at all times.

If you aren't scared ever on the track you need to either be more honest or you shouldn't be driving because you're a danger to yourself and the other drivers. Therapy would be in order.

 

when i stop being scared that's when i'll begin to be bored..... and quit.

 

I'm never bored because you and my other friends scare me . . . :

Seriously though, I think that everyone gets scared once in awhile on the track. However, my understanding of the question that led to this thread was more whether fear is an indicator of leaving something on the table, which suggests that you should be scared all the time through every corner in order to be fast, which is very different than getting scared once in awhile.

 

exactly. yes and yes. i agree.

the catch is, it won't show in the slower corners b/c the speed and fear will not be there while the skill is running things. once you get into a FAST scary corner, even w/ skill, the fear will make you tingle "down there"

 

Who ever you are, I just spent a minute re-reading all of the posts, and I do not see anyone who said that they do not feel some fear sometime when out on the track. I think that what this thread is about is whether or not you need to feel that fear to drive fast. As I previously posted, I think that you should not have to crank up your courage to generally drive as hard as you can. If so, then what you perceive to be the limit is a bit lower than it actually is.

That does not mean that there may not be a little more speed still on the table. I used to time-trial before I raced and I can tell you, that to find those few extra 10ths of a second in one or 2 laps did require maximum concentration, total dedication, and a gut check now and then. After a 3 lap run I would come into the pits sweating and shaking, but that's what it took to win.

So if this is about cutting a one off, hair lap on the edge, yes I believe that if you have no fear, you are not going fast enough. But if you back it down just a fraction from that, so you can run lap after lap, unless you screwup, it is absolutely possible and desireable do that without any genuine fear.

 

My times are posted on PCA.org...nothing to hide here. Where might I find your times/results, eh?


I think Larry summed it up well. There are definitely times when I have big pucker moments, but it certainly is not every corner on every lap.

 

Again, what does time have to do with being FOS?

We are in agreement then. And since you think you are fast this proves my point even more. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

Please reread 38D's post. Here is a copy:

His post implied, in my opinion, that there are a lot of fast people on this thread that are fearless.

I restate: FOS or SLOW or BOTH. It is a simple formula that everyone seems to ultimately prove correct.

To have fear does not make you less of a man (or woman) or imply that you are slow or anything else. Drivers just manage their fear differently. Some work around it, some work through it. But it is there and the degree differs from driver to driver. One person may be afraid on every corner, another every lap, another every race.

Whatever management skills you have they are much more taxed in a race than DE. Racing is on a completely different level.

 

Lap times are pretty meaningless unless you can compare those to what the car us really capable of with a top amateur or decent pro (not F1 quality as that is a whole different world). If you run within a second or two of that limit, I find it very hard to beleive that a driver is not terrifying or puckering themselves on almost every corner. Conversely, I suggest that if you have not done a lap at that fear level, you are not close to the edge.

I mostly agree with camber799 and my lap times are pretty public - both the good ones and the 'no fear' laps as well.