Larry, good summary. Many people I talk to don't realize the number of areas of skill/expertise that go into making a good instructor.

I'm told our region averages about 65 days prior to becomming an instructor. I had 73 when I went through National Certification, and experience at all 8 tracks that our program visits (plus some others).

 

Hey, where do I go to get some of those free for instructor gigs?????

 

Absoluletly agree with you. I have been really concerned with the number of applications I have seen with instructors with under 25 days . . . They would most likely still be in the instructed group unless they were a star.

 

Yes, I understand what it takes to become an instructor, and yes I would still like to set me sights oon achieving that goal. I feel I know what it will take, and no I'm not there yet. In my field of Engineering it takes about 5 years to become a competent designer. I'm on my fifth yar now and am still learning, because that's what it takes to advance in a field. I learn what I can from experience and talking with people who've been there before. THat's why I think I may be a good canidate (in my head) to try for this goal. It'll be a few years but I'm in no hurry, you can't run if you never learned how to walk, right. Plus the head for our area is a tough cookie, which will only make me be better and learn more to prepare myself for the task.

OK, now back to the good stuff. Can I be an instructor and still drive a 928.............

Ha ha ha.

 

Fair enough. It appears that you do understand the long road ahead of you. I hope that you make it.

Of course! You'll get to instruct all the Corvettes & Vipers, you know, V8 (&10) front engined stuff. Ha ha ha.

 

40 days? That's all it takes! I've got about 120 days in the last 18 mths and I'm not an Instructor yet. I always knew I was a little slow but....... I must have a bad attitude or something.

 

I respectfully disagree with the number of days needed/recommended to becoming an instructor. All candidates are different, some may be qualified to instruct after 20 days, others may be qualified after 50 days, and still others...well, lets say they will never be qualified to instruct. To put a number to how many days makes a candidate qualified to instruct is doing an injustice. If you guys are ballparking, then ok, but I think individual circumstances are much more important than the number of track days.

Instructors can go through all the "training courses" available, but can't hone their skills as instructors until riding to the right of a true student. Good instructors are not suddenly born from instructor training courses. They learn the basics in the classes, then hone their skills through experience. The only way to get that instructing experience is to do it.

I see no problem with a qualified instructor candidate (with lets say 15-20 days of track time for the sake of arguement) teaching green students. If one can communicate effectively the importance of safety, traffic processing, basic car control techniques, the "line", and imparts a sense of enthusiasm to the student, who cares how many days they have. Most groups put new instructors with green students anyway, don't they? Obviously, the more track time the student has, the more advanced the instructor needs to be.

It's important to know how much on-track experience an instructor candidate has. However, I don't think that a certain number of days should be a prerequisite to instructing.

OK, Crank on me...I can take it

 

I agree with this. I think I had around 17 days when I started instructing, but when my laptop crashed so did my track records. I know is was less than 25 (about nine mos.). I was nervous as hell, but jumped in the fire and usually, if not always get good evals from my students with NASA and Mazda. I just started instructing for PCA in Sept.

With that being said, I am probably not much help w/ someone in Black, but can help plenty with Green, Blue, and with most White students (some more than others). I can say I am still learning about teaching.

I now have about 60 days over two years.

Jim

 

To be a GOOD instructor you need to be able to drive well and understand teaching. They are two very different things.

First, you need to know the subject and have the skills down pat. Instructing is far more than being a good driver. Instructing is conveying information and communicating with others. You need to be able to read the student and his/her needs and methods of learning. If you are still thinking about the driving part you are likely not spending the time needed on the teaching part. Some of the best drivers suck as instructors for early students. They are great for fellow instructors and red or black group drivers for tips and the like but dump them on a Green student and the student will be overwhelmed in stuff that they cannot yet comprehend. The instructor can’t figure out why the student is such a dunce! Second run and he still can’t understand something as simple as TTO while left foot trail braking and dropping from 5th to 2nd matching RPMs so the clutch is not needed. Sheesh, take up golf already! Some of the best drivers are also great instructors too. They can do both well.
It is easy even after 5 or 10 track days to hop into a 0.0 Green student’s car and see that you are well advanced in skill and knowhow from them. The hard part is where to start, what to say and when and how to get the info to them in a way that makes sense to them. Throw it out in bulk and you will only jam them up. You have to remember and work from their perspective and convey it in a way that is understandable, at the time and to them.
Apply the information and concepts item by item concept by concept step by step all the while watching them, correcting habits and reinforcing previously covered concepts. Modify and change the syllabus as you go to better suit the students needs, learning methods and skills. Do this from the right seat while not loosing life, limb, lunch or lucidity.
The payback is NOT discounts or track time. (Nice perk, don’t get me wrong) The pay back is seeing the lights go on in your student. That is well worth it in my book.


Most clubs are watching the regular track rats and looking for instructor material. I bet they will come to you when they think you are ready in their eyes.

 

Kurt, also well said. I work hard to determine when a new, or near new, student has enough to work on and show me that they can consitantly apply, before I give them more to think about and apply. I have little desire to tell them everything I know at once.....besides, they might actually descover how relatively little that is!

 

Good post. It is a great feeling when your student "gets it". One of, if not the best instructor I have had was Manny. He was enthusiastic and sometimes clapped in the car when I really nailed it. This is something I find myself doing from the passenger seat occasionally. I still have the videos w/ Manny instructing and clapping, they are great!

I was tapped to instruct and wasn't expecting it at all.

Ironically I got an email from a NASA student today: “What's up Jim... hey man I have been working on the stuff we talked about on the track... I can't tell you how addicted I am to this! Also I have been working on Heal Toe. Right now it is a little shacky, but I figured if I worked at it until next summer I should be fairly comfortable. Anyway I hope that you can be my instructor again for next season when I come out to Summit again...”

I cut some other stuff out, but was psyched to get this.

 

Good answers! # of days driving at the track does not make someone a good instructor. The experience obviously is an asset but teaching is a totally different animal. I will follow the training program next year but, like driving, nothing can replace seat ( right) time.

 

That's a good point. The great instructors have a way of delivering corrective advice in a manner that increases the student's confidence. Based on various conversations with friends and fellow students about instructors they have considered to be less ideal, "bad" instructors have a way of delivering corrective advice that makes a student doubt themselves generally or simply feel bad about being on the track. As in most sports, confidence is key to driving well. In fact, I think that confidence is even more important when it comes to driving because self-doubt could lead a driver to make the kind of mistakes that get them and their instructor hurt (e.g., lifting mid corner and spinning into a wall, etc . . . ). I'm not talking about giving "false" praise, but a good instructor can evaluate someone's driving well enough to see through all the mistakes to some sort of good foundation upon which they can build. They can then praise the foundation and start working from there. I haven't been lucky enough to have you or Manny in the passenger seat of my car, but it sounds to me like you both understand the psyche of a student (or at least students like me and most of my friends).

 

It takes a lot of days just to experience many (not all) of the things which can happen, good or bad, on the track and be ready to address them on a moment's notice in the student's car at speed. I seriously doubt that a driver, even if he's a born-again Schumacher, with 20 days on the track can meet that test. Has he ever spun? Gone four wheels off? Two off? Straight off? Into a gravel trap? Crashed? Had someone spin right in front of him? Gone too hot into a corner with only one chance to fix it? Has he had the chance to talk with his fellow drivers about these things and others which will inevitably happen, sooner or later? I'm pretty new to this instructor game but I can see why seat time is the gold standard. I should think one year per run group, on average, is about the right rate for advancement (I know, you were much faster) and one year in black before instructing, so around 80 days.

 

No, no, you're attitude is fine, you got it right the first time - you're just slow

I agree with most that # of track days isn't as important as ability - both driving and teaching. You really have to want to to help, otherwise it gets old in a hurry.

Bruce