gbaker

Professor,

We've only tested our product once under 38.1, so that is the only vid, except for the other cameras of course. I know there are other vids of the HANS device in that test, and I would love to see them. They should be identical.


Kurt,

There are published numbers for the R3, and we see no reason to doubt them. Videos never make any product look good, so the manufacturer may not release them. The only time videos are of any value is in a side-by-side, or when you can sync them with the data.

Z-man

That is one of the arguments for a H&N restraint system that attaches to the driver's body and thus does not rely on the functionality of the harnesses or seat. (As in the R3 or G-Force SRS-1). Yes, due to the 'soft underbelly' of most racers, such a device will allow more neck movement initially, but it won't allow further movement due to seat belt / seat failure, I think.

Comments?

Based on a lot of reading and research here and elsewhere, it looks like I will be purchasing an R3. Some of the reasons for my decision:
1. The portability of the R3 - I can use this system without worrying about harnesses - the system is independant of harnesses.
2. I like the idea that the system will still restrain the neck and head from movement even if the harnesses / seat are not in ideal shape, since the system is 'anchored' to the body.
3. Though extra padding will be required in the seatback, the system looks less bulky and easier to setup than the other systems.
4. It is SFI 38.1 tested and approved. Debate this verification process all you want - I think the SFI folks know a thing or two about safety.
5. Installation: David Katz, an R3 rep will assist me in the setup and install of the product. I like customer attention! (Note: I'm sure the others would also assist with this). BTW: David Katz is a active supporter of my PCA region, and I prefer to give my business to those who are supporters of the club.
6. Price factor (I just won a $150.00 coupon off the R3 system at the annual NNJR Chinese auction).

-Z-man.

mitch236

Why do you need extra padding in the seatback?

Larry Herman

Some people find that the back piece can feel uncomfortable without the U shaped relief pad. I don't need it, and I find that the more concave your seatback is (side to side) the less noticeable the back piece is.

fatbillybob

Professor....I like the chess thinking mentality. However, the hans is not a freely clean device. I bet in a crash as you propose the device will still hang you from the harness just like it can get caught i window nets and the like. It is kind of like flyfishing. Sometimes that damn fly goes everywhere and hooks on everything but the fish.

TD in DC

I thought I was the only one who had that problem, which seems to be worse whenever I see a goldie.

Professor Helmüt Tester

I would take that bet.

I'm surprised that anyone would chose to equate the two forces (drag of released harness & HANS, vs. released harness but helmet still connected via Isaac to shoulder strap).

As to the 'egress' issue, let's just remember that it's pretty hard to exit a car if you've already suffered a fatal BSF.

gbaker

Our point exactly, i.e. one must go with the order of priority:

#1 cause of racing fatalities, BSF.
...
#n cause, coming "through the belts."
...
#n+x cause, belt/latch failure.

TD in DC

One of the reasons why I personally chose the ISAAC system is that it should not interfere with the normal function of the harness, and yet it appears to be less sensitive to harness setup.

Also, I am not sure I understand the concerns about egress. I bought the quick release option for my ISAAC set up, which allows me to disconnect myself by merely tugging on release rings on the sides of my helmet. Once released, which is simple, I am completely unencumbered by the ISAAC, which remains connected to the harness.

I have been practicing Egress. I understand that it would probably be much more difficult in the event of an accident, but it doesn't seem to be any harder to get out than it would be with a HANS. Hopefully I will never have to learn the truth through experience.

sleder

Now to add more devices to the mix...what about the Hutchens 2 device found on te R3 website right next to the R3? IMHO, Hans is OUT! Isaac is still in the mix for a decision, but so is the R# and I need to learn more about the Hutchens 2

TD in DC

The boys, err the guys, get nervous everytime I think about the Hutchens.

Professor Helmüt Tester

Just curious - what data was used to arrive at that specific order of priorities ?

gbaker

To further demonstrate that I am a better engineer than I am a salesman, I would choose the Hutchens II over the R3.

Why? Assuming the price and performance are about the same (could be wrong), the H2 seems less cumbersome in that there are no rigid components below the shoulder blades.

Also, I don't like the idea of anything rigid along the centerline of the body, where the nerves are concentrated--probably too many years working with neurological surgeons. An IRL driver had a huge crash this year and our sources tell us that Dr. Trammell found he had posterior lacerations to the vertebrae. He wasn't using an R3, but the idea of fractured carbon fiber near the critical body parts is unsettling.

I'd mention that we saw some of that with this testing, but I would be accused of being a salesman.

gbaker

I believe they've switched to a 6 pt. version now, TD.

gbaker

#1 is well documented. The Charlotte (NC) Observer has been keeping a database for nearly 15 years. 50% of driver fatalities are from "head and neck" injuries. Absent autopsy reports most experts assume these to be BSFs of one form or another (it's a broad diagnosis).

The rest of it is antecdotal--nothing hard anyone can point to. A HANS user died of head injuries after "coming through the belts" at LRP in September, and this is often described in similar fatalities, HANS or not.

Most latches are good for nearly 10,000# of load, so it is only an issue if the driver completely fails to connect properly. I'm sure it happens, but it is also reasonable to expect drivers to want the shoulder belts on the shoulder, regardless of what else is happening.