Shenandoah Rocks!
10-29-2005, 11:37 PM
#1
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Shenandoah Rocks!
Day one of NNJR's first ever DE @ Shenandoah is in the books.
A couple of observations:
- Leave your horsepower and EGO at the door - it won't help much here!
- For every season, turn, turn, turn... There are many, many combined turns. Lots of them. Some sections of Shenandoah make Mid Ohio's Madness look like a straightaway!
- Crowns everywhere - there's a crown running through the center of the track at most places. Some of this requires a non-traditional approach to certain turns, since the track goes from on-camber to off-camber once you cross the crown.
- The Hook is terrific - I like the 'one arc' approach to this up and down hill blind corner. Nail it right, and it rewards you - hit it wrong, and you won't have room for a smooth transition into the proceeding right hander.
- The right hander leading onto Brdige straight is a really, really, REALLY late apex turn - get the car rotated and wait for the apex. Then nail it!
- The end of Bridge straight - over the crest - you can get really really light - interesting part is the 'landing.' Since the track is falling away towards driver's left, and you're kinda going through it a a slight diagonal towards driver's right, the landing is a right side first, then left side transition. Keep the steering straight, and don't make any input to throttle, steering, brakes...etc.
- Karousel is quite a different turn - not much you can do while you're in there but stay at a steady pace, and maybe accelerate a bit towards the end of it. Stock cars with soft suspensions will scrape bottom. Dropping into it is easier than I first expected. Coming out of it is fun, unless you come out early - even a little early.
- Corkscrew turn - rewards those who wait. This second gear turn.
There's more to this track, but I'm beat and need my beauty sleep.
Definately put this track on your places to visit. It is fun, challenging, and like no other track around!
Good night,
-Z-man.
A couple of observations:
- Leave your horsepower and EGO at the door - it won't help much here!
- For every season, turn, turn, turn... There are many, many combined turns. Lots of them. Some sections of Shenandoah make Mid Ohio's Madness look like a straightaway!
- Crowns everywhere - there's a crown running through the center of the track at most places. Some of this requires a non-traditional approach to certain turns, since the track goes from on-camber to off-camber once you cross the crown.
- The Hook is terrific - I like the 'one arc' approach to this up and down hill blind corner. Nail it right, and it rewards you - hit it wrong, and you won't have room for a smooth transition into the proceeding right hander.
- The right hander leading onto Brdige straight is a really, really, REALLY late apex turn - get the car rotated and wait for the apex. Then nail it!
- The end of Bridge straight - over the crest - you can get really really light - interesting part is the 'landing.' Since the track is falling away towards driver's left, and you're kinda going through it a a slight diagonal towards driver's right, the landing is a right side first, then left side transition. Keep the steering straight, and don't make any input to throttle, steering, brakes...etc.
- Karousel is quite a different turn - not much you can do while you're in there but stay at a steady pace, and maybe accelerate a bit towards the end of it. Stock cars with soft suspensions will scrape bottom. Dropping into it is easier than I first expected. Coming out of it is fun, unless you come out early - even a little early.
- Corkscrew turn - rewards those who wait. This second gear turn.
There's more to this track, but I'm beat and need my beauty sleep.
Definately put this track on your places to visit. It is fun, challenging, and like no other track around!
Good night,
-Z-man.
Last edited by Z-man; 10-31-2005 at 12:32 PM.
10-30-2005, 12:04 AM
#2
OUtstanding, -Z- !
The more people drive this track, the more they will come to apreciate what a gem it is. Its certainly not a horsepower track. Its a skilll track. There are so many subtleties that it will be a long time before we squeeze the last drop from it. Great to hear you enjoyed the track.
FWIW, I'd like your permission to quote you, and anyone else who feels like posting soem appreciation of the Shenandoah circuit. Bill Scott suffered mightily from critics who panned the track, starting long before it was finished. There was an incredible amount of bad press. Bill was dealing with cancer during this time, and had it tough enough without the negative press.
I know he woud really appreciate hearing from drivers who are discovering what a great track it is. If its OK with you, yours might be the first quote in what I hope will be a long list.
The more people drive this track, the more they will come to apreciate what a gem it is. Its certainly not a horsepower track. Its a skilll track. There are so many subtleties that it will be a long time before we squeeze the last drop from it. Great to hear you enjoyed the track.
FWIW, I'd like your permission to quote you, and anyone else who feels like posting soem appreciation of the Shenandoah circuit. Bill Scott suffered mightily from critics who panned the track, starting long before it was finished. There was an incredible amount of bad press. Bill was dealing with cancer during this time, and had it tough enough without the negative press.
I know he woud really appreciate hearing from drivers who are discovering what a great track it is. If its OK with you, yours might be the first quote in what I hope will be a long list.
10-30-2005, 12:15 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Shenandoah rocks is right! I can't wait for next weekend. Are you going Tony?
I have been once w/ BSR, once w/ NASA, and once w/ Mazda and it gets better each time. I wish I could be there this weekend, but couldn't make it.
I have been once w/ BSR, once w/ NASA, and once w/ Mazda and it gets better each time. I wish I could be there this weekend, but couldn't make it.
10-30-2005, 02:04 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
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Its a fun track 
It rewards skill and probably more so, proper car setup (light cars do esp well). I do very well with my Acura race car there vs P-cars in driver's ed. With 142 hp though, Z-man, the carousel is WOT! And popping out a little early is "fun" (and way less scarey than popping out of the mini-carousel at the Nurburgring!!).
We should make sure to pass on to other people that you can take 3 seperate paths thru the carousel. The normal line, but also the high and low sections are also relatively fast (boogers on top) -- so if a car bottoms out on-line, just take either high or low.
Also fun is passing (or being passsed -- me) in the carousel in a race.
Bill Scott was able to accomplish a flow to the track, which is somewhat rare in the tracks I have driven. It reminds me of Mid-Ohio that way. Contrast it to (I know, heresy!) the Glen which is turn, straight, turn, straight, etc....
It rewards skill and probably more so, proper car setup (light cars do esp well). I do very well with my Acura race car there vs P-cars in driver's ed. With 142 hp though, Z-man, the carousel is WOT! And popping out a little early is "fun" (and way less scarey than popping out of the mini-carousel at the Nurburgring!!). We should make sure to pass on to other people that you can take 3 seperate paths thru the carousel. The normal line, but also the high and low sections are also relatively fast (boogers on top) -- so if a car bottoms out on-line, just take either high or low.
Also fun is passing (or being passsed -- me) in the carousel in a race.
Bill Scott was able to accomplish a flow to the track, which is somewhat rare in the tracks I have driven. It reminds me of Mid-Ohio that way. Contrast it to (I know, heresy!) the Glen which is turn, straight, turn, straight, etc....
10-30-2005, 10:06 AM
#5
I love Shenandoah. It is definitely one of my favorite tracks. It has a great rhythm, and, despite all of those wonderful turns, I feel safer at Shendandoah than I do at most other tracks, and there are plenty of places to make safe passes so nobody needs to get jammed up despite so many turns.
Thanks to Bill Scott for making a driver's track. I actually think that one of the beautiful things about the track is that it can reward all types of cars, high hp, low hp, heavy, light. It is the type of track that helps you really get to know the particular strengths and weaknesses of your own individual car, and it rewards experimentation to try to capitalize on the strengths and minimize the weaknesses.
I personally plan to go back to Shenandoah at every possible opportunity.
Glad to see you had a good time Z-man. I hope my track description helped you get your feet on the ground a little faster.
Thanks to Bill Scott for making a driver's track. I actually think that one of the beautiful things about the track is that it can reward all types of cars, high hp, low hp, heavy, light. It is the type of track that helps you really get to know the particular strengths and weaknesses of your own individual car, and it rewards experimentation to try to capitalize on the strengths and minimize the weaknesses.
I personally plan to go back to Shenandoah at every possible opportunity.
Glad to see you had a good time Z-man. I hope my track description helped you get your feet on the ground a little faster.
10-30-2005, 12:16 PM
#6
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Well...
One man's flow is another man's flail, and one man's Zen-state is another man's insanity. There are shades. Rhythm is more universal. Flow means smooth to me. Semanitcs, perhaps.
Mid O is a bit too athletic and bumpy to have "flow" in my mind. You can produce rhythm there without a doubt, but it takes a while to figure out what the He!! you are doing to get anything approaching flow! There are only three "straights" at the Glen: Main, Back, Sole of the Boot. If you don't understand what I'm getting at, then you are driving too mechancially and lacking a sense of nuance. My steering wheel is not "straight" for very long from the Inner Loop all the way to the Sole of the boot, from the entrance to 10 onto the main straight, and from 2 to the back straight. THAT is flow. It just aint coming up quickly. Slow your mind down and enjoy the ride, eh?
Anywho, my buddy is at Shenandoah right now, and I look forward too a report. Guess I'll have to get down twice next year... once for SP and once for the "new kid." Looking forward to it!!
One man's flow is another man's flail, and one man's Zen-state is another man's insanity. There are shades. Rhythm is more universal. Flow means smooth to me. Semanitcs, perhaps.
Mid O is a bit too athletic and bumpy to have "flow" in my mind. You can produce rhythm there without a doubt, but it takes a while to figure out what the He!! you are doing to get anything approaching flow! There are only three "straights" at the Glen: Main, Back, Sole of the Boot. If you don't understand what I'm getting at, then you are driving too mechancially and lacking a sense of nuance. My steering wheel is not "straight" for very long from the Inner Loop all the way to the Sole of the boot, from the entrance to 10 onto the main straight, and from 2 to the back straight. THAT is flow. It just aint coming up quickly. Slow your mind down and enjoy the ride, eh?
Anywho, my buddy is at Shenandoah right now, and I look forward too a report. Guess I'll have to get down twice next year... once for SP and once for the "new kid." Looking forward to it!!
10-30-2005, 05:58 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
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I must have a looser definition of what is a "straight". I almost think of anywhere that I'm flat on the floor as a straight. By that definition, are the esses at the Glen a straight? I guess not in that case.
The back section of Mid-Ohio has a flow/rythm to it, where if you get off line, its difficult to get back. At the Glen, with the exception of the esses, if you get off line, its not a real challenge to get on by the next turn. But like you said, we all like things for different reasons.
The back section of Mid-Ohio has a flow/rythm to it, where if you get off line, its difficult to get back. At the Glen, with the exception of the esses, if you get off line, its not a real challenge to get on by the next turn. But like you said, we all like things for different reasons.
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10-30-2005, 07:48 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by Darren
Its not the same turn anyway, more like a 3/4 scale replica
Darren, I think it's more like 25% of the ring. Just look at your track picts at the Ring in August. We lined up some 15 cars in the Karusel to study the line. There was still more room! I will check on Weds while running the track. If you day ends early. Stop out!
10-30-2005, 09:01 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Darren
I must have a looser definition of what is a "straight". I almost think of anywhere that I'm flat on the floor as a straight. By that definition, are the esses at the Glen a straight? I guess not in that case.
That's pretty funny! That means almost the entire Glen is a straight for me!
Perhaps I overstated that a bit. I am of course going straight down the Chute, the Laces, runing up to the Off Camber, and toward 11. However, I am not running parallel to the edge of the track.Anyway, I feel tremendous flow at the Glen. I feel flow at Mid O, but with the healthy dose of muscle involved to make the car go where necessary, it is not the same... forme anyway. I'm playing semantical games with it, I guess.
Finding flow or rhythm is a good sign. It means the course designer did a nice job, and that you are figuring his design out nicely! The Glen is one of the hardest tracks to put it all together and feel flow and rhythm, for sure.
10-30-2005, 09:44 PM
#13
Maybe it will become routine after 20 or 30 days on Shenendoah, but with 4 days there this year it is by far my favorite track. It is a track that is fun to drive and the rythm and flow begin to set in after just a few laps. Bill Scott has a winner here. I know that when we took a pole of our DE drivers as to their preference of Jeffersn Circuit VS Shenandoah it was Shenandoah hands down.
10-31-2005, 12:43 AM
#14
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Shenandoah is a fabulous facility. The track is very challenging and has a great rhythm. The classrooms are spacious . . . there is electric everywhere in the paddock . . . gas pumps are scheduled to open the end of the week and certainly by next season the cafeteria and showers will be open. I can't wait to go back . . . we already booked our date for next year.
I have to agree with those who said that Bill Scott has a winner here . . . . additionally, from an organizer's perspective it is really a pleasure to run an event at this facility . . . I must have been asked a half dozen times a day how things were going and if they could day anything for me. You can't beat Southern hospitality!
I have to agree with those who said that Bill Scott has a winner here . . . . additionally, from an organizer's perspective it is really a pleasure to run an event at this facility . . . I must have been asked a half dozen times a day how things were going and if they could day anything for me. You can't beat Southern hospitality!
10-31-2005, 03:15 AM
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Jefferson is so hard on cars/tires too. And some of the worst wrecks seem to happen there. Running it CCW so its decreasing radius esses is fun, but that is the only enjoyable part. I'm all for eliminating Jefferson from the schedule(s)....Its worse than any Pocono config, IMO.
Arlene -- Where did you do the pit entry/exit?
Arlene -- Where did you do the pit entry/exit?