cbad911

I just read the rules for PCA Auto-X, DE and TT.

I cannot find any mention of seat requirements and am wondering if there is talk of adding/strengthening the requirements for seats at those events. I only ask, because I have been looking at seats predominately to lower my head in my car and have been told that "in a year or two" racing buckets will be required for DE & TT events.

Any feedback will be appreciated by me and those that will follow me down the slippery slope I find myself on.

Thanks.

RedlineMan

Hey;

It is not likely you will see PCA telling you what you have to do. It is more likely for regions to do that. In most cases, PCA takes a hands-off approach. There are regions that require certain levels of drivers to do certain equipment upgrades. Personally I think this is wrong. I take a more "personal responsibility" tack rather than pushing people into things they may not want to do.

Also, I see a lot of what they base their decisions on as faulty logic, or plain ignorance of what is really going on. There are not enough people that have a truly good understanding of the risk/benefit/unintended consequences ratio to make such decisions.

I am trying to get PCA to provide more of a service to its members by supplying them with the information they need to make informed decisions, with little result to date.

Go ahead and get your seats. Watch the grip on the slope, though.

cbad911

Over a hundred and twenty views and only one reply/opinion...I thought I'd see a lot more opinions here than that for sure. It must be a first!

I guess I'll just go ahead in get a set of sport seats (thinking about the Cobra Daytona's), slide in a Harness bar w/restraints, an extinguisher and call it good untill I find myself wanting more (that shouldn't take too log!).

RedlineMan

We Gurus have a way of deflating threads like that.

The scoop is right there, man. There really isn't much else to add. They will not (or should not) tell you what you have to do, as long as you do it correctly. The correctly part is another kettle of fish unto itself.

The sport seats can be a good choice for dual use cars. Getting a racing shell is rather limiting in terms of daily use and utility. Shop carefully, though. Some of the Sport seats I've seen are REALLY crappy.

M758

Redline man says it all.

... of course that is not a new occurance you have been here a while.

... He has lots of good info to share.

I don't have any more to add.

David 23

I have been a little confused about safety requirements for DEs. I understand the logic of allowing personal responsibility dictate how far one goes towards installing safety equipment and attire; probably trying to keep costs down, and the events more accesible, however I wonder if PCA or the local clubs should take a more aggressive position. Let me say I am not an expert, nor do I race, or club race. I do DEs, and recently joined a private racetrack club in order to do more track time. I read the recent thread about fire safety equipment in DEs, and several individuals suggested wearing full suits at those events. It seems a reasonable position, but it seems to be not well supported by most attendees. At our events maybe one of fifty wears a suit. Even individuals who race, and own the gear tend to not use it in DE events. I'm curious why, and why local PCA tends to not encourage a stronger position. I'm not trying to hijack the thread, as this is about safety, and includes the seat issue.

earlyapex

cbad911, as the previous posters have stated, your local PCA region should have a set of rules that you can use for reference. Each track organization will also have their own set of rules so you need to check them before signing up for an event. As for the slippery slope, the fact that you ask means that it may be too late. I can only say that you need to have fun and be safe. You can do a search on previous posts regarding track and competition cars and see how others have travelled this well worn trail. Have fun in 06.

Bull

In this country, I wouldn't expect that anytime soon. Consider all of the legal actions around "you told me (or implied) that I would be safe if I used your exact list of equipment, then I broke my arm....".

David 23

Good point, but on the other hand, couldn't someone take legal action if they were let to drive without any reccommendations? Perhaps suggestions or guidelines could be made without suggesting it will make you safe, just that they are reccommended to increase safety, and reduce the likelyhood of injury, not guarantee it.
Maybe green and blue groups have a "street" level of equipment, and above that, as speed and aggressiveness increases in the higher groups, safety attire and equipment requirements increase.

Bull

You can take legal action for any reason...with some you can prevail.

You would "suggest" certain equipment, commonly called "safety equipment", for what reason?Oh! You suggest it will make me more safe....but it didn't (says the brief).......

David 23

I guess I don't see how not making any suggestions, rules, guidelines, or however you want to phrase it, is more responsible, and incurrs less liability than leaving it up to the participant, many of which are first timers, and have no skills or idea of what risks they are taking.

Bull, what is your location relationship to the Galapagos Islands?

cbad911

Thanks guys.

Bull, it seems like there are already some rules and/or guidelines in place (i.e., harnesses and extinguishers), so it really seems to me to be a mute point. Not that I disagree with you at all. Way too many lawyers out there.

Doesn't seem like anyone else had heard of any rumblings about requiring full race/bucket seats anytime in the near future. I am predominately speaking about DE's, 'cuz that's where I'm at, or at least heading, Most likely just a salesman at a local shop trying to up sell me something I don't need or want (at least not yet anyways...)

38D

Read the PCA club racing rules. It will at least give you some idea of what is commonly accepted (not everything is perfect, but it is better than no info at all).

Personally I would get one piece FIA approved seat & rails, good 6-point harnesses, a roll bar, seat back brace and a H&N device. If you feel like going to the next step get a fire suit, fire supression system and cut off switch. A cool suit is also great for reducing fatigue, which makes you safer IMHO.

RedlineMan

David;

As unfortunate as it may be, the safest route to take is to mandate as little as possible. My idealistic side says that is BS, but my realistic side understands it. Concurrently, I am trying to find a middle ground.

cbad;

There have indeed been rumlbings of lots of things over the years. Most of the time, the intitatives are based on the faulty logic and ignorance I mentioned earlier. Fortunately, most of these big ideas never get past the talking phase.

Just 2 years ago, Zone 1 PCA was just this close to mandating roll bars for cars with harnesses and race seats. At a Zone President's meeting, I was the lone dissenting voice, and managed to talk them out of it... for now.

You just need to make sure you make good decisions based on quality information, and/or that you meet the requirements for the group you run with. Throw out your equipment thoughts here, and I'll give you my take on them!

Bull

I certainly won't try to apply any logic to the reality (as John indicates above) of what is unfortunately the current situation. What "should be" and what "is"...... I suspect that when it comes to some of the equipment we are discussing, some orgs want to leave it between the manufacturers and the users.

No location relationship to the Galapagos Islands....it is simply Mecca to some of us Turtles! More of a mental location relationship at times.