shiners780

For those who have made the conversion from Power Steering to Manual Steering, what are the +/- ?

My steering system is leaking from no less than 4 different places. I either need to replace/rebuild it, or convert to manual. Help me make my decision.

This is for a car that is 100% track driven (hence my posting in this forum), no street use. Only actual converts need reply, no hearsay please. I'm looking for FIRST- HAND experiences.

Thanks all !!!

Lemming

I swapped mine out a few months ago. I've driven it at one track event so far and I liked it alot. I was actually running my PS with the belt cut for over 1 year since the pump had gone out. Even running it like that was better than the PS, much more road feel. I should however mention that I'm running 15x7 wheels with 225's on front, if you are running much bigger it will make it more difficult to turn a lower speeds.

shiners780

Lower speeds meaning paddock area speeds, or tight radius on-track speeds? I'm willing to give up the comfort of being able to maneuver easily around the paddock, if I can gain on-track benefits. I currently run 16X7 with 205 front, and 16X8 with 225 rear. I may go with a bit wider tire, but nothing crazy.

brucegre

I have an electric PS pump in my Cup car, and every now and again, I forget to turn it on. It's drivable, and provides great feel, but I really like the low effort of the PS when I'm working hard. If you're going to run any enduros, then I'd really suggest keeping it. For sprints or 20 minute DE sessions, you're probably OK with manual.

Cheers,
Bruce

RedlineMan

REALLY depends on the car;

Manual is highly over rated in my view. I know EXACTLY what my tires are doping with PS. The gold car in my avatar is a manual car. It has 255/35/18 front tires with 600lb springs and solid bushings. I can't feel a damn thing the tires are doing, and that is on a smooth track like the Glen. Granted, my Carpel Tunnel and Radialis don't help a bit, but my forearms cramped every session. I can't even imagine Lime Rock or Mid O.

Nope, it's PS for me all the way.

joseph mitro

check with tifosiman. he did a manual swap and really liked it a lot.

Jerry Ljung

I converted my 944 track only appliance to manual (remove ps pump, short circuit the rack loop) a year and a half ago. No regrets. It is a little bit of a nuisance in the pits, but over 25 mph, it's completely forgotten. I have the 600 lb springs and solid bushings setup, and have not regretted the lack of feedback. The manual steering may indeed do more to dampen small and potentially critical feedback info, on the other hand, they may get averaged out to fit into your driving response rythm. It could upset your driving, or it could be the golden goose. Weight, and one less system/leaking fluid source was what convinced me.

RICHVIZZ951

Shiners, I have my rack out and like what I perceive to be better road feel. I had a 951 prior to this with PS and definately like not having PS better. I run 245 35 18 and 285 30 18's with no issues in manuevering. As stated it could be a little better in the pits. I plan on running 11 & 12's when I go widebody, but thats not slated till the season after next. I have been told it may be too much to handle w/o PS with wheels that wide. We will see. In its present form I do get a work out at tracks like Lime Rock, but I vote for No powesteering.

Bill L Seifert

With what it costs to convert to real (1983) manual steering, I feel it ain't worth it. Back when I did it about 5 years ago, you could buy the parts from a wrecked 83 944, and convert it for $100-$200. Now, it costs upwards of $700 to convert, I can't tell that much difference. With real non-power steering, the only time I notice it is in the pits, but on the track, it feels exactly the same. Of course, I may not be a good enough driver to appreciate the difference in feel. I have had and raced basically the same car since 1989, and for $200, I would probably convert, because you never have to worry about leaks again, and that's nice, but at $700, no way. But then again, that's just my opinion, and I may be wrong.

Oh, by the way, I had my tie rods go out this year, and they cost double of what power steering tie rods cost. Sooner or later tie rods do go out. Also, I have no experience in disconnecting power steering, so I can't speak about that.

Bill Seifert

1987 944S Race Car

joseph mitro

i have had nothing but trouble with my power steering system...primarily leaks. now with a tie rod going out, i've got a manual rack and intermediate shaft for $220, so to purchase the new tie rods isn't going to be much more expensive than getting a new power rack anyways.

shiners780

Thanks guys. I'm hearing a lot of positives, and not many negatives of converting to manual.

If my power steering system wasn't puking all over my garage floor, my trailer, and generally making a complete and utter mess of my car's underside, I would stick with the power for now. However, I either spend $400 rebuilding the power rack and replacing faulty hoses, OR I spend $800 on a manual conversion kit which includes new tie rods. Either way I have to spend the first $400, so for an extra $400 I get new tie rods, new rack, and new intermediate shaft. So the cost factor is rather irrelevant.

Maintenance/leak issues aside, I've heard most say that steering feedback is better with manual, but a few have said worse. Is it car-specific? Do different people perceive feedback in different ways based on their personal preference? Those who say feedback is worse with manual steering, maybe their arms are getting tired. Therefore, the lack of steering feedback is more of a drivers' arm fatigue issue based on the extra work required? I don't know, just tossing out ideas so I can better understand what to expect.

Any other first-hand experiences?

Bill L Seifert

If you can get the parts for $220 as Joseph did, then maybe it is worth it. But according to the latest Vertex catalog, tierods are $95 apiece for manual, and only $59 for power steering. That does not include shipping on either one.

I think the biggest thing is cost. There weren't that many 83's built, and the parts are getting rare, for them. Think about how many 84-89 na's, 86-89 Turbos, 87-88 S's and 89-91 S2"s were built. The more people that try to buy 83 steering parts, the fewer there are available. Like I said, the going price is around $700. What I am trying to say, is that if you want one, try to get it from someone that doesn't know what the going price is. However those people are getting fewer, and fewer. One other thing, the steering boxes, both manual and power, do break, and the rebuilt manual boxes are much more expensive than the power ones.

One last thing, the power steering leaks are not that hard to fix. I kept mine relatively leak free for 9 years before I converted to manual. I converted because a lot of people told me the feel with the manual was so much better, and as I said above, I can't tell the difference at speed. Remember the power steering is quicker than the manual. That's why it is easier to turn at slow speeds than a power steering box with the pump disconnected.

Bill

Bill

Stan944

Those that have power steering sometimes don't have a good understanding of the term "feedback". Feeling the road irregularities is not THE issue. It's the feel when turning the car at the cornering limit. Below (and near) the limit of front-tires adhesion, you have to counteract quite strong pull in the steering wheel that wants to straighten the wheels. When you go too fast and loose the front-tires traction the steering wheel suddenly feels light, and no more pulling to straighten the car. I like this kind of feedback a lot, but it's personal.

RedlineMan

Sometimes.

Chipster

Before your next event, pull the PS belt and drain what's left of the fluid - this will give you an idea of what its like driving a manual. This is really the only way to determine if you'll like the feel. It may not work for you.

I did the conversion a few years ago and I'm thinking about switching back. I like the "feedback" I get from the car on a smooth track - but after a day of hustling the car around a track like Mid Ohio, my arms are pretty tired. Physical strength and stamina also play a big part. I do strength training several times a week and I'm big (6'5" 250lbs) so short track stints are no problem - but after a weekend on a rough track (like Summit Point), my arms were like limp noodles. Plus, I've recently been diagnosed with carple-tunnel so the return to PS is looking pretty good.