carreracup21

I won races with my stock US Cup suspension ( same as 964 Euro RS , bilsteins and 250/400 springs). It was also good enough for a D class track record at CMP (1:46.57), but that was with headers. 2:27.5 at Sebring, 1:20's at Roebling. It is possible to win as totally stock with the right car i.e GT3 , and Euro RS versions can win nearly as is.

Larry Herman

I won races in F that regularly had over 25 cars in my fairly stock 1984 911 Carrera. It only had stiffer torsion bars, Bilstein sport shocks and a free flow muffler. It even had stock width wheels, but that was back in 1996. The ante was raised every year, so that by 1998 you could not win in F unless you had a full race suspension, headers, 8s & 9s x 17 wheels, fresh Hoosiers and a fresh rebuild. So much for a stock car ever winning in F again.

MJR911

You sold that car stock too, right Larry?! In 1996 you could win b2 with a stripped out early chassis and a stock 3.2 with carbs.... and I was knee high to a cadillac. The days have certainly changed, but if you buy the RIGHT stock class car you can win with a good alignment, hoosiers and safety.

Larry Herman

Mitch, like I said, the ante was raised every year, and I was one of the ones who was raising it. The car was quite a ways from stock when I sold it.

carreracup21

I finally had to relunctantly raise the bar too, as I just didn't have the goods for the big races. So far the new suspension looks to be worth about 2 seconds at VIR over my old times.

38D

I think there are a handful of guys in PCA CR who could be on the podium with stock suspension. The most important upgrade to do is the springs/shocks...these make a huge difference. The headers, monoball suspension, lite wheels, etc. make some difference, but I would guess that a good driver can win without them depending on the class.

In my 3 races this year, I only saw one car that was "unusually" fast. For the most part I think people seem to play by the rules.

MJR911

Bill,
Drop me an e-mail next week with some of the details from your VIR test! Sounds like it went well... hope you tortured our "clone" buddy.

Dave Parker

Depending on the class (some of the newer cars with sport / club sport suspensions), you will not win without suspension mods and headers (or at least SSIs on post 74 911s). I'm running a 911SC in G.

With stock torsion bars, a set of 'street sized' weltmeister sway bars,lowered to 'european' height, SSI exhaust, and Hoosier tires I could run about 2:01 laps at Brainerd (3 mile course). With large torsion bars, 'race sized' sway bars, revalved struts and rear shocks, lowered to the max, headers, and (still) Hoosier tires I can run just under 1:57. (The difference is in the handling .... I don't think the headers made much difference.) The car with these different setups is night and day different. My cornering speeds are significantly higher (especially in long sweepers).

My point is, if you are at a race where a good driver shows up with a 'race prep'd' car, you can not win with the stock car as you have defined.

aeshultz

Jim;
In one word - "no"
Or perhaps that would be "no way."
I don't even think that SCCA Showroom Stock runs "stock" suspension. I'm sure someone here can correct me if I'm mistaken. And PCA Stock classes are FAR from SS.
Alan

clubrcr

Thanks guys, I had won several races in my US Cup "D class", but that car's suspension was from the RS, which is more stiff. Also, I some of those races, all of US Cups were within .01sec of each other.

Alan, it's funny that you bring up SCCA's showroom stock, I thought that would be a great place to race until I heard about guys who had $100K in a $30K car.

Anyone that thinks racing is cheap.......well, they have been sold by a great salesman.

Bill935K3

I know at the glen Keith drove this B class GT3 car to the track and slappe on a set of Hoosiers.
The interior looked pure to me. I don't think the car could have had much more than spring rates and shock valves. It was definitly a street car
1 127 KEITH ALEXANDER 10 22:03.310 1:26.412 2:10.542 10 93.763
2 34 BARRY BRENSINGER 10 22:23.442 1:46.544 2:11.081 4 93.377
3 02 RAFAEL A LLOPIZ 10 22:24.067 1:47.169 2:11.957 10 92.757
4 845 RICHARD T CARR 9 21:33.913 45.177 2:19.750

Larry Herman

Yeah, that probably is the one class where you can be competitive with a bone stock car. Since you have to spend about $90,000 to get one though, you can buy a front running car in a lower class for much less.

fatbillybob

Is there a pca class that stock 944 turbos run or are all these cars modified to run in some kind of unlimited class since it is so hard to catch the invisible engine mods to things like wastegate etc.?

Larry Herman

I don't know about the Turbo S in E stock, but in F stock, if a 944 Turbo pulled your Carrera down the straight, he was cheating; plain and simple. I ran against a few well driven 944 Turbos and plenty of Carreras, and we were all dead even.

JCP911S

Speaking only for G and F stock... but I'd say a top pro at a race like the Glen would have a hard time winning in a "stock" (nothing changed but safety equipment) car, even with Hoosiers. On streets, I doubt even Shumi could win.

Podium? maybe... yes.