TD in DC

With all the talk about lower HP cars, safety and cages, I thought I would post an update based upon my second DE with my '84 944, which was at the main circuit at Summit Point with Potomac PCA.

I had an absolute blast again, and I really do think that I have done the right thing by foregoing a used GT3 in lieu of a low HP car at this stage in my driving skills, although my friend keeps parking his new GT3 next to my 44, which sometimes causes me to start trembling. He is like the guy that brings a Martini to an AA meeting

The 44 crowd has really taken me under their wings, and I got some great advice from Matt Marks, Tony Kelly, Betty Church and Starla Phelps. The kindness and skills of the track crowd never ceases to amaze me.

Several people have been asking me about the differences between the 996 and the 944 on the track. It is like the difference between night and day.

The 996 is an outstanding car. Mine has PSS9 suspension with GT3 sways, which I installed before I took it on the track, so I can't say too much about the stock suspension except that I hated it on the streets because it was far too soft. The 996 minimizes driver errors. Actually, the 996 minimizes the impact of all driver inputs (note that I am NOT talking about PSM or traction control), as well as, to a certain degree, insulating feedback from the road. This can be great for novice to early intermediate drivers because it smooths out your driving. My 996 sticks like glue on the track, and it can be difficult to get the rear end to come out even when I want to. I had to be pretty rough with the car to induce TTO, and even then the car didn't really want to cooperate. When it did finally start to swing around, PSM would kick in and stop everything. The same is true with lifting to bring the front end in to an apex. At some places, including the caroussel at SP, I needed to lift seriously to get the front end to bite and come back in where I wanted it.

The 944 is an entirely different beast. Every driver input is magnified. If you are doing things right, the car will dance with you. If you are doing things wrong, it will bite you faster than you can imagine. Ask me how I know! The car simply does what you tell it to do. [CLARIFICATION EDIT: I am not suggesting that the 944 is an unforgiving car. Quite the contrary. I am only pointing out that the 944 does exactly what you tell it to do, including if you tell it to do something stupid. By contrast, the 996 let's you get away with a lot more because it does not always respond to stupid inputs. As such, both the 944 and the 996 are very easy cars to drive and both are very forgiving. However, the manner in which the 944 is forgiving makes it easer to learn car control skills. END CLARIFICATION] The immediate response of the 944 can make things a little intimidating at first for an intermediate driver moving to it from a 996, but you learn to love it very quickly. Also, you can feel the car a lot better. My car doesn't have power steering, so the input from the road is tremendous. Also, you don't need to turn the wheel half as much as in the 996, which is outstanding on the track and the street. When I hop back in the 996 after a full track weekend in the 944, I ask myself why on earth they don't make steering work the way it used to, and reserve power assist for below 5 mph.

Finally, a huge difference is the weight. There is no substitute for lightness. You can really feel the weight transfer in the modern/heavy cars. My 944, which is pretty light, feels like a go cart, which is a lot of fun.

I think that my experiences in the 944 will definitely make me faster once I return to a higher HP car. At some track event, I would like to jump back in the 996 just to see if this is true. I bet it is . . .

Now, a little note on the PSM issue. I think that a lot of people who do not have PSM do not really understand how it can impact a beginning/intermediate DE driver. I think it is a good thing for a beginner with an expensive car, and I also think that it does not have to interfere with the learning process. I promise you that you would have to be an idiot not to realize that the computer had engaged and started to help you out. In my experience, there are really two types of engagements.

First, the "I am saving your a$$ from a major off" engagement. This engagement occurs when you have done something boneheaded or simply have exceeded available traction (e.g., like when I have tried to induce TTO). In this type of engagement, the car jerks violently back on line. It really is amazing. If this happened to you and you didn't notice it, you are legally brain dead.

Second, the more subtle "I can help you a little here" engagement. This engagement occurs at odd times when you really haven't done anything wrong per se, but you have placed the car in an "unusual" situation. Think Madness at Mid-Ohio. Under these circumstances, you cannot feel the intervention but you would have to be BLIND not to see the bright flashing yellow light on your dash. Again, if this comes on in your car and you cannot see it, you really should consider whether you belong on the track.

PSM and traction control definitely have their flaws, but they do not drive the car for you without your knowledge (unless you are brain dead or blind, in which case you should thank God that you have it). That said, I am glad that I am now driving a car that doesn't have ABS or PSM, because I know that any success I have is due to my own skills. If and when I move back to a car with ABS and PSM, I will know that they are there to help me but that I do not "need" either.

The traction conditions over the weekend were "challenging" to say the least. I was running Michelin Pilot Sport Cups on 15x8 Fuchs, and I don't think I ever got the rears to stick until the last session of the last day. I think that my car may simply be too light for those tires (although I haven't weighed my car, it supposedly is 2550 with the former driver). The rear of the car kept trying to come around (far sooner I might add than it did in 944s running Toyo RA-1s that gave me rides -- I could feel the difference in traction), which was actually probably good for me because I kept having to "catch" the car, sometimes two or three times in a single corner. I was also having a real problem with traction in the braking zones before corners one and five, but more about that a little later.

Driving the 944 is forcing me to examine certain skills in greater detail. Take braking, for example. In the 996, I was braking very well, and I was not activating ABS. I eased on the pedal smoothly but rapidly going to full braking force, then I released gradually near or slightly after turn in. I honestly used to think to myself "what is the big deal with threshold braking . . . it is easy." With the 44, I had problems with the tires locking up all weekend in the braking zones for one (which is at the end of the longest straight) and five (which is a rapid portion of the track with a downhill braking zone that is fairly bumpy). These problems forced me to focus a lot of attention on the fine points of braking as well as how to control traction issues and to address problems by creating mental frameworks so that I can adjust systematically my braking points and adapt to ever changing conditions. I am not sure I would have even noticed any of this in the 996, apart from braking a little earlier. Our own Matt Marks was instrumental in helping my braking. He picked up on the fact that my initial problems had spooked me and caused me to start reverse braking a little (even though I know better), which of course just makes things worse.

I also think I improved my car control skills a little. It is easier to drive the 44 at the edge so that you can experience the constant small corrections that you need to make when you are going through a corner as quickly as traction permits. Hopefully this will start to become more subconcious, which it already had started to by the end of the weekend. I must say that I feel a lot more comfortable driving closer to the limit in the 44 than in the 996. I think this is a factor of slower speeds, full safety equipment (cage, race seats, harnesses, fire supression, and ISAAC) and much lower cost. My purchase price for the 944 was 1/10 what I paid for the 996.

UPDATE: It was interesting dealing with trying to pass faster cars on the straights, which includes just about everyone now. I do a fairly good job of harassing several cars in the corners, including with no grip in the rears. I had a few cases where I got point bys, and then the cars would walk off from me. The first time it happened was with a Boxster S. However, she realized what was happening and slowed down at the end of the straight and let me by Another time, one of my friends pointed me by between 9 and 10, and then FORGOT I was there!!!! I was planning on passing him by taking 10 off line (taking corners off line doesn't really bother me too much), but Tony Kelly and I noticed that it looked like he was going to come down into me at the apex. I backed way off and let him come through. He was suprised that I was there. He let me through after 10, and then came by and apologized after the run. He is a great guy and I wasn't mad, but it shows that I need to remember that people sometimes have brain farts even after pointing me by. It is a little hard on the ego to be forgotten after you receive a point by.

Here are some pictures of my new toy. Although she definitely has some flaws in the bright light, she looks pretty good in the dark and she really knows how to dance, which is alright with me You can see from the pictures why I have clearance problems with the cage.

TD in DC

Here are a few more pics.

ColorChange

You comparison to your 996 is not quite fair. If you have adjustable sways, you can get the 996 to rotate very nicely and make the car fairly neutral. Also PSS9’s are not very good for the 996 if you have the car lowered. I have the car lowered, stiffer springs, adjustable sways, Moton ClubSports, some solid suspension components from Cary, and it takes the wallowing pig of a car you were driving to a heavy but performing car.

You’re not quite accurate on your PSM description. When PSM is turned off, it will only reengage when you touch the brake and the car is out of sorts (according to the PSM view). The first example, the PSM doesn’t jerk violently on line, it jerks violently in a straight line from where you were traveling (like a tangent). This usually shoots you to the outside of the track, but is does normally slow the car for you to regain control. I agree, when this happens, it’s as subtle as a sledgehammer to the back of the head.

The second example makes it sound like you didn’t turn PSM off, which you most certainly need to when you have some skill. While I enjoy my ABS, I do not like PSM either.

IMO, where PSM is the worst is under heavy trail braking. When you rotate the car under braking, you have to do it very carefully otherwise the PSM kicks in and really screws up the turn. I am working on turning it off completely.

M758

I just spotted one thing.

you can swap the tach for the speedo. That is move the tach to the center hole in gauges adn just have enough reach for the cable to reach the speedo. This puts the tach right were you want and you can turn the tach so 6 is straight up. Make it easier for me to see the gauges that count.

Carrera51

Great write up Todd. Some good insight for those who are considering going the route you did.

As far as the MPSCs, I heard from other 944 guys that they don't work well because they can't build up enough heat in them to make them stick.

M758

I have never used MPSC's on my 944, but have had great sucess with the toyo RA-1. They are cheaper than MPSC (about $128 per tire), last a long time, and are streetable and rain worthy with deep tread.

TD in DC

Tim,

With all due respect, I think you miss the forest for the trees. I am not saying that you cannot rotate a 996. What I am saying is that Porsche engineers have done an incredible job at making the 996 (including your TT) easier for the average driver to drive incredibly fast. However, the same characteristics that make this true also make the car slower to respond to driver inputs. You CAN do it, you just have to try harder. This is generally true without regard to the exact type of suspension setup you have. Also, I never said the 996 wasn't neutral.

Second, my discussion of PSM assumes that PSM is turned ON, which is how most green/intermediate drivers drive their cars at DE. I know that you can turn it off, and when you do it is only reactivated when you brake, which causes a problem for trailbraking when your slip angle exceeds 7 percent. Actually though, if you were driving at an expert level, you probably wouldn't be exceeding 7 percent even while trailbraking because that means you are leaving speed on the table Before you get pissed at me, keep in mind that I am joking around with you, as I am most times.

TD

M758

Also

Your Strut brace is mounted differently from mine.

Mine

TD in DC

Hmmmm. Thanks for the tips Joe. I am going to go though my dash in the off-season and do exactly what you recommend.

ColorChange

TD, no problem. . If you were talking with PSM on, OK. And yes, the car is still numb compared to your car so we are in general agreement.

You are correct about the 7% angle but wrong about the real problem with PSM under trail braking. The PSM system also uses yaw and this is the killer. I can keep the slip angle where I want it (at least on some turns) but if you dive bomd a turn and rotate the car, when you rotate quickly, the PSM jumps all over you. It really sucks. The yaw rate limit is what's killing me.

M758

Getting around some corners fast requires what may feel like a "controlled spin". Once you get comfortable this is quite easy and fun in the 944. I can see how PSM might send the electronic police out to get you if you did that.

TD in DC

Yes, I know, I was just trying to tweak Tim a little all in fun. I still think that PSM probably doesn't become an issue until you are advanced intermediate or above.

earlyapex

That's a very nice write-up. Are LSD's legal in your car's class? It may help settle your rear end under braking.

TD in DC

Yes, and my car has LSD and the european lower 5th gear

RedlineMan

Hey Todd;

My only comment would be that there is no way a 944 should ever bite you, UNLESS;

- You are a clod with no car control skills.

- The car is set up wrong, or at the least less than optimally.

The only way these cars can get tricky to drive, and still be set up properly, is if you are using REALLY stiff spring rates, like over 650lbs for a 3000lb car. Then they can be a bit edgy in the rear, and you also have to drive them quite hard to get them to work right.

Other than that, they are pretty much idiot proof! If they are well set up, you really have to be on the edge before they should be bailing on you.

I'll have to get down to Summit and hang with you guys a bit!