Glen

Tim,
Your primary concern is always safety. Use that to drive Your choice of car. Look at all of the cars You are considering, after they are balled up bigtime, will make Your choice an easy one....

Greg Fishman

CC,
It happened all the time to me at a PCA DE in the few session I drove a friends Boxster, or when i rode with him. No one wants to be passed by a "girl's" car and short of dive bombing them they were reluctant to let you by even when you clearly earned it. I have always thought the 993 or 964 N/A were good DE cars, because it had enough hp to be interesting and it made you work to get the most out of the car. Also no drivers aids except ABS.

I rented a Spec Miata at a DE at Laguna Seca and had a ball, it was fun to run down M3's or 911s and most were good about giving a passing signal quickly. But at a track like Road AMerica it would not be much fun since you would spend forever down the straights.

mitch236

Just to throw more confusion at you, why don't you consider the Subaru or Mitsubishi? I'm not really a proponent but I have seen them at the track and they are quite a track bargain. Then again, if I were you (and I went down the same road you are now going since I started DE in my new 2002 TT) I would get a 944 turbo and learn with it. But take it from me, get one that is already built as far as track ready but avoid engine/tranny mods.

JackOlsen

Evo's and STi's have a habit of rolling.

ColorChange

OK, Here are a few options with some lunacy.

1. '06 Miata Pro - due in Spring
brand new, faster, maybe more set-up - optimization issues, parts concerns

2. Recent Miata spec
fully set up, lower cost, slight mechanical risk

3. Nascar - cup car
fast, very safe, higher cost to run and purchase

What do you think?

924RACR

I have to agree with the idea of an SM, purchased used and ready to play. Stupid reliable. As pointed out, the solution to the problem (which I have even seen in my single DE) of not getting point-bys - Eaton blower install. That and a big "Supercharged" sticker, in reverse for easy rearview reading, for the nose!

gbaker

Greg,

You can get this whole package at Robinson Motorsports. Mick Robinson was my SCCA instructor and he has a well-respected operation with some excellent people.

I know it's not close, but I suspect you wouldn't mind escaping those winters for some occasional Florida sunshine.

Tell him I sent ya.

JackOlsen

I'll stop jumping in after this, but the answer seems obvious.

You want to improve as a driver, and you plan to use your particular ideas (fast corner entries first, the rest later) and methods (trust only the data) in order to do it.

That's all fine. But you're also looking for a way to keep your kids' father alive and well, so you're looking at a safer, more modestly-conceived car, the Miata, and you're not going to get into wheel-to-wheel racing.

As I understand it, you're not looking to take down the overall lap records at your local tracks. Even a supercharged Miata isn't going to do that. So pursuing the 'I built a faster car than anyone else' route seems out of the question. But the 'I'm a faster driver than the rest of you guys' path is still open. You just need a specific context in which it's credible.

Let's say you build a one-off super Miata or buy a Cup Car. You run a blistering lap at Road America, and you start a thread on Rennlist about it. We all look at it, and we have to answer the question: is ColorChange quick because of his iconoclastic methods of driver development, or is it just that he bought a fast car? We won't know.

But if you buy a Spec Miata, and keep it spec, the answer will be pretty clear. Anyone can look at typical and exceptional times for that class and car at any track in America. If you make a spec car dance around the g-circle in such a way that you start threatening the fast guys' times, then we'll know to stop smirking and start logging some danged data.

Otherwise, you're going to continue to improve your lap times -- relative only to your own previous laps in the same particular car -- and both you and we are going to start to get bored. Everyone continues to get better, to a point. But the exceptional drivers show that they're not only faster than their less-experienced selves, but also faster than other guys in similarly set up cars.

The Spec Miata is the way to go.

ltc

From your initial sentence at the start of this thread:
"I have been looking at getting a dedicated track car to reduce my speeds and increase my safety at the track"
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a NASCAR Cup car (~550-650hp) is not going to help reduce your speeds.

ColorChange

Ok Jack. I follow, but I still think you can compare drivers in different cars, just like I did with the 944. My beloved data doesn't address how easy it is to drive the respective cars, but it does tell how much of the car's capability the driver extracted.

ltc:
Agreed, but I think that is about the safest car on 4 wheels, even with the high speeds. I'm thinking maybe I get my cake and eat it too, especially if I gear it short?

hrk

If you go SM route:
Having done many DE:s with Spec Miata including Porsche and BMW ones, make sure your car is loud as hell and be prepared to drive 3" from other cars bumper in one gear lower than normally so your bumping the rev limiter constantly. This is only way you get past some people. They may give you a point by but you are unable to make the pass since they have to lift a lot for you to make a pass and they have probably screwed your momentum in previous corner. And then they think you don't want to take the pass...
And since passing is limiteds to straights you can't outbrake or outcorner anything. Just wait for their signals.

Fun car, but not in DE. On the other hand they are easy to sell.

DE needs something with a bit longer legs, so you can show to the guy in front that you really want to go around him.

Forced induction brings tinkerer out of you or your mechanic and simplicity and reliability suffer. I have street Miata with 15000 turboed miles without major issues, but for track it would need a lot to cope driving with sustained boost.

mitch236

At the risk of being flamed, why don't you get a late model Boxter and get it track ready. It has more metal around it than then Miata and it has a little more power so you can maneuver around traffic better. I know of a few drivers in my area that have them and they do quite well.

I would stay away from the NASCAR stuff as it won't be as reliable.

ltc

CC,
if you want a stock car, here you go:

http://www.racer-net.com/nascar.htm
http://www.racer-net.com/nscrwc.htm
http://www.racer-net.com/nscrbg.htm

http://www.cars-on-line.com/21800.html
http://www.cars-on-line.com/21046.html

http://oval.race-cars.com/carsales/p...16898738ss.htm

mitch236

Love this quote
"runs like what they run on Sunday"

sjanes

At least with this: http://www.racer-net.com/nscrtk02.htm, you can have a tailgate party at the end of the day