First let me say that I feel very bad for the family and friends of Eric. This is a real tragedy and one that makes all of think. This and other similarly serious incidents has us all thinking about the need for more safety equipment in our cars. This latest incident has been the topic of much discussion. Instructed group students are considering purchasing Hahns (or similar) devices.

Personally the level of safety equipment that students put in their cars has implications for the instructor corp. As an instructor (and did not have your own compatible device), would you get in a car with a student wearing a Hahns device?

 

Would you get in the car with a student who was wearing Nomex when you didn't have any?

Non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Then again, I have both and where them when I can.

 

I have been test fitting my R3 H&N device, and did not get it finished for this past DE, but I am not going to get into a car again, mine or a students, without it. That goes for my boys too.

 

I am a little confused. Are you having concerned about getting in a novice student's car if the novice is wearing a HANS or other h&s restraint? I guess I don't follow the logic?

I am a novice and some see it as overkill to have a rollbar, harnesses for both driver and passenger, and race seats. I see it as the cost of responsibility. I feel a great responsibility for instructor.

 

no problem with that, but certainly not the same thing. Our rules say that the instructor will be provided the same level of safety as the student. I have been involved in motorsports for over 30 years and the only injury that I have seen from fire, was a backfire through the stacks on a CanAm car that burned the mechanic. Sudden stops and high instantaneous g-loads are a much more frequent occurence.

I had originally believed that DE was all about taking your street car to the track and learning how to drive. The instructor corps is all volunteer with very little pay involve - maybe a discount on event entry, free entry, free lunch. Everyone participates to the level they can. Unless all instructors purchase Hahns devices or don't worry about it, the task of assigning students to appropriate instructors will become even more daunting.

 

While I have yet to come across a green student wearing a H&N device, I don't think I'd have a problem with it. A 30sec talk before getting into a car will give you a good idea of where the student's head is at. I'd much rather hear "My wife was worried about me doing this, so I got a Hans Device", than "All the racers on TV wear them, and we're racing right?" or "I want to go as fast as I can, so I'll need one".

Typically, in the lower run groups, I'll use a stock 3pt belt if it's available even if there is a harness in the car. My main reason for doing this is that, unless I know the car, or the person who modified the car, I'll stick with what the factory installed. I've seen a lot of "safety upgrades" that I wouldn't trust my life with (i.e. harnesses with stock seats, harnesses attached to the rear seat belt mounts, harnesses bars in coupes, anti-sub strap that goes out over the front of the seat, 4pt belt, etc).

Although, until I turned my computer on this morning, I had never considered the possibilty of a fataility in green, or even DE for that matter. I know about Ben's crash in his Carrera GT, but that was easily pushed to the back of my mind with "My car wouldn't do 165mph if I threw it out of a plane" and "that was just a bad track configuration to be driving on". I'm not sure what exactly happened at WGI, but this incident did get me looking at the Issac again.

My thoughts go out to the Eric's family, and to his instructor.

 

As an instructor I would be glad to see a student with a HANS. To me, that says here's somebody who thought hard about safety and has made a significant economic decision to put his money toward safety. As opposed to more go-fast parts. And that attitude should carry over to his/her demeanor and/or willingness to listen on the track.

- Cris
#88 73 911 RS clone <== FOR SALE!
http://alpinemotorsports.org

 

I think this is a whole lot of nothing.

If I climbed into a student's car and they had a HANS, Isaac, or some other H&N restraint, I'd personally think "Smart boy (or girl)".

 

Sounds like I am already getting emotional responses, not everyone that I have talked to feels that way.

 

Alan,

For those that you have talked to that said they would be concerned, did they give a reason? Are they instructors that use a H&N restraint in their own car, and can't use one in a student's, or do they feel that the student shouldn't use any safety device the instructor doesn't have?

 

last weekend I instructed someone in a cobra and to me it was indeed rather scary to be unable to wear my hans and to have ZERO head restraint at all (as the seat had NO head restraint)... my other half also was instructing a Cobra driver and in his case, he didn't even have a roll bar on his side (My driver had a full roll bar but only the driver seat was a kirkey while the 'jump seat' was just a normal cobra style original seat without headrest)... so I could NOT use my Hans.
...yes I was rather concerned instructing... and was happy to be able to sign him off very early because I was not feeling very safe in a 500hp car without a headrest and not being able to use my HANS....

...but that same day I instructed a novice Mini driver in a 100% stock car and I wasn't as 'worried' that he didn't have full-on safety equipment. ...and the speeds he drove were significantly less as well...


The thing we need to keep in mind as instructors is that we can tell the student to slow down and can also tell the student to pull in off the track at the appropriate exit if we feel they are not driving at a safe speed. I have never had a problem with asking a student to get off the track and fortunately never had a student ignore my instruction or request to exit the track....

 

I don't think that I would instruct someone with a car like that. If they have enough money to buy a Cobra, then they have enought money to buy a "learners car" to properly develop their skills on, and then get into the Cobra when they have enough training to do so on their own. My $.02

 

I have been instructing folks for a some time. It would not bother me in the least if my student had some type of head and neck restrint and I did not. Really this rule of equal safety cannot apply to H&N devices just like it cannot apply to fire suit. These are personal safey devices. If as students wants a fire suit or other that is fine with me.

Now the cobra incident I would not have gone out with him. The reason being is that it seemed the that such gear was below the level that would be acceptable for the driver so why should an instructor get stuck with it.

 

Alan, are you saying that you would be worried that this novice with a HANS is going to be a "kamikaze" driver? Do you think people might push a little harder thinking they have

I can see where you are coming from. I know that in my case (I am a slowly progressing rookie...still trying to find the time to get on the track more often) I have thought about the Isaac Link device.

I value my life. I am also recently married. I don't have kids yet, but it will become even more important to me at that point. I assume that most people with these devices are of the same mindset.

 

I'm sorry, anyone that uses the word "overkill" and "safety" in the same sentance has no business on a race trak. I'm not saying every novice should be required to wear a HANS device, but they should be encouraged to do so and anything else that increases their safety.