LMP2 Question
07-30-2005, 11:21 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
LMP2 Question
Why do these cars have two cockpits & rollbars? Initially when I saw them, I thought they were a 2-seater car. But, then I was wondering if they can use either side based on the track setup (i.e. for better weight distribution)? Or, are the two rollbars (hoops) there for better balance, aero, etc.? Does anyone know? I believe the Panoz LMP1 car had a similar design, but I'm pretty sure it just had one rollbar. Anyway, thanks in advance for any info.
07-30-2005, 11:50 PM
#3
Advanced
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Naples, Florida U.S.A.
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In a recent issue of RaceCarEngineer magazine (Brit) they spoke about the newish Lola LMP2 car and said that when they reviewed 'single roll hoop' versus 'double roll hoops' the double arrangement was superior.
Maybe it has to do with disruption of air flow to the rear wing and body, or maybe the center point of pressure is not as optimal with the single roll hoop.
Either way no, they do not switch right hand drive to left hand drive depending on track layout. The air intake and plumbing dictate that the driver sits on the right, and I think it makes pit stops easier/quicker with the driver closser to the pit wall/crew.
Anybody heading up to Petit LeMans to see tye maiden voyage of the RS Spyder?
Maybe it has to do with disruption of air flow to the rear wing and body, or maybe the center point of pressure is not as optimal with the single roll hoop.
Either way no, they do not switch right hand drive to left hand drive depending on track layout. The air intake and plumbing dictate that the driver sits on the right, and I think it makes pit stops easier/quicker with the driver closser to the pit wall/crew.
Anybody heading up to Petit LeMans to see tye maiden voyage of the RS Spyder?
07-31-2005, 07:13 AM
#5
Drifting
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Munich
Posts: 2,722
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the ACO regulations:
ART. 14 – COCKPIT
14.1 - The cockpit must provide the best protection for the driver.
14.1.1 - It must be possible to fit symmetrically about the vertical plane passing through the longitudinal centreline of the car two seats of equal shape and size excluding the shoulder supports and/or the mandatory protections mentioned in articles 15.4, 16.1.1 and 16.3.
14.1.2 - The driver's feet must be located aft of the vertical plane passing through the front axle centreline.
14.1.3 - Empty volumes :
Two volumes of equal dimensions defined by six flat surfaces with 90° angles and symmetrical to the longitudinal centreline of the car must be provided for the legs of both occupants.
a/ Dimensions :
a.1 -; Length : from the pedals vertical plane to the vertical projection of the steering wheel centreline ;
a.2 - Minimum width : 330 mm ;
a.3 - Minimum height : 300 mm.
At Scrutineers' request, the competitor must show the two volumes during scrutineering.
b/ The only components allowed to intrude into these volumes, any other being excluded including the bulkheads across, are :
b.1 - The steering column and its universal joints ;
b.2 - The suspension arms pick-up points if not a danger for the driver ;
b.3 - The foot-rest and the protection stuffing for the driver if removable in order to allow the empty volumes to be controlled.
14.1.4 - The areas adjacent to the driver must include a protection padding.
14.1.5 – Cockpit opening and volume :
a/ Open car
a.1 - The cockpit must allow the insertion of template 1, the dimensions and position of which are defined by drawing n°3. For this check, equipment mentioned in article 14.1.6.a may be removed.
a.2 – All the points of the chassis structure that delimit the cockpit opening on the sides, at the front and at the rear must be at least 500 mm above the reference surface ;
a.3 - Are only permitted on top of the cockpit opening safety devices mandatory in Art. 15 ;
a.4 – The forward extremity of the cockpit opening must be at least 50 mm in front of the steering wheel, whatever its operational position.
and
ART. 16 - SAFETY STRUCTURES
16.1 - Rollover structures :
16.1.1 - Main rollover structures :
a/ Two safety rollover structures (front and rear) are mandatory.
They must be :
a.1 - At least 660 mm (920 mm for closed cars) at the front and 1020 mm (open cars only) at the rear above the reference surface ;
a.2 - Separated a minimum of 860 mm longitudinally (600 mm for closed cars);
a.3 - Covered with fireproof foam (FIA approved) as far as tubes close to the driver are concerned.
a.4 - Be symmetrical to the longitudinal centreline of the car.
b/ The driver at the wheel, the helmet must be at a minimum distance of 80 mm from the line connecting the top of front and rear rollover structures. (see drawing n°9).
c/ As viewed from the front, the steering wheel, whatever its position, must not protrude from the front rollover structure (open cars only) ;
d/ Should streamlining or fairing cover the front and/or rear rollover structures its upper part must have a maximum length of 200 mm (longitudinal measurement) and it must allow inspection of the mounting areas on the main structure, by the Scrutineers.
e/ The rear structure must also :
e1 - have a minimum overall length of 300 mm measured at the level of the mountings on the survival cell.
e.2 - have a minimum height of 165 mm (open cars only) relative to the secondary rollover structure of the survival cell, described in article 16.1.2 (see drawing n°9).
e.3 - on a frontal projection, the external sides must form an angle of 30° minimum to one another (see drawing n°10).
16.1.2. - Secondary rollover structure :
The part of the survival cell situated rearward of the driver must form a secondary rollover structure, the purpose of which is to protect the occupants in the case of a failure of the main rear rollover structure described in article 16.1.1 above.
Viewed from the front, this structure must be symmetric about the longitudinal centreline of the car and must always extend beyond the outline of the driver's helmet.
Its external sides must form an angle of 40° minimum to one another and its upper part must have a minimum diameter of 280 mm (see drawing n°10).
The secondary rollover structure must have a minimum height of 855 mm relative to the reference surface.
The minimum frontal section as defined above must be at 100 mm maximum backward the foremost point of the secondary structure.
The front must be closed. Air intakes for the engine are only permitted (ACO approval).
The English might be a bit quaint, but this explains why the cockpits are the way they are - the templates referred to allow for driver and passenger. Incidentally, although published in English and French, the French version prevails. The two versions do not always agree. Most of the time close reading of the French version will pay off, English only speaking teams should be aware of this and plan accordingly.
R+C
ART. 14 – COCKPIT
14.1 - The cockpit must provide the best protection for the driver.
14.1.1 - It must be possible to fit symmetrically about the vertical plane passing through the longitudinal centreline of the car two seats of equal shape and size excluding the shoulder supports and/or the mandatory protections mentioned in articles 15.4, 16.1.1 and 16.3.
14.1.2 - The driver's feet must be located aft of the vertical plane passing through the front axle centreline.
14.1.3 - Empty volumes :
Two volumes of equal dimensions defined by six flat surfaces with 90° angles and symmetrical to the longitudinal centreline of the car must be provided for the legs of both occupants.
a/ Dimensions :
a.1 -; Length : from the pedals vertical plane to the vertical projection of the steering wheel centreline ;
a.2 - Minimum width : 330 mm ;
a.3 - Minimum height : 300 mm.
At Scrutineers' request, the competitor must show the two volumes during scrutineering.
b/ The only components allowed to intrude into these volumes, any other being excluded including the bulkheads across, are :
b.1 - The steering column and its universal joints ;
b.2 - The suspension arms pick-up points if not a danger for the driver ;
b.3 - The foot-rest and the protection stuffing for the driver if removable in order to allow the empty volumes to be controlled.
14.1.4 - The areas adjacent to the driver must include a protection padding.
14.1.5 – Cockpit opening and volume :
a/ Open car
a.1 - The cockpit must allow the insertion of template 1, the dimensions and position of which are defined by drawing n°3. For this check, equipment mentioned in article 14.1.6.a may be removed.
a.2 – All the points of the chassis structure that delimit the cockpit opening on the sides, at the front and at the rear must be at least 500 mm above the reference surface ;
a.3 - Are only permitted on top of the cockpit opening safety devices mandatory in Art. 15 ;
a.4 – The forward extremity of the cockpit opening must be at least 50 mm in front of the steering wheel, whatever its operational position.
and
ART. 16 - SAFETY STRUCTURES
16.1 - Rollover structures :
16.1.1 - Main rollover structures :
a/ Two safety rollover structures (front and rear) are mandatory.
They must be :
a.1 - At least 660 mm (920 mm for closed cars) at the front and 1020 mm (open cars only) at the rear above the reference surface ;
a.2 - Separated a minimum of 860 mm longitudinally (600 mm for closed cars);
a.3 - Covered with fireproof foam (FIA approved) as far as tubes close to the driver are concerned.
a.4 - Be symmetrical to the longitudinal centreline of the car.
b/ The driver at the wheel, the helmet must be at a minimum distance of 80 mm from the line connecting the top of front and rear rollover structures. (see drawing n°9).
c/ As viewed from the front, the steering wheel, whatever its position, must not protrude from the front rollover structure (open cars only) ;
d/ Should streamlining or fairing cover the front and/or rear rollover structures its upper part must have a maximum length of 200 mm (longitudinal measurement) and it must allow inspection of the mounting areas on the main structure, by the Scrutineers.
e/ The rear structure must also :
e1 - have a minimum overall length of 300 mm measured at the level of the mountings on the survival cell.
e.2 - have a minimum height of 165 mm (open cars only) relative to the secondary rollover structure of the survival cell, described in article 16.1.2 (see drawing n°9).
e.3 - on a frontal projection, the external sides must form an angle of 30° minimum to one another (see drawing n°10).
16.1.2. - Secondary rollover structure :
The part of the survival cell situated rearward of the driver must form a secondary rollover structure, the purpose of which is to protect the occupants in the case of a failure of the main rear rollover structure described in article 16.1.1 above.
Viewed from the front, this structure must be symmetric about the longitudinal centreline of the car and must always extend beyond the outline of the driver's helmet.
Its external sides must form an angle of 40° minimum to one another and its upper part must have a minimum diameter of 280 mm (see drawing n°10).
The secondary rollover structure must have a minimum height of 855 mm relative to the reference surface.
The minimum frontal section as defined above must be at 100 mm maximum backward the foremost point of the secondary structure.
The front must be closed. Air intakes for the engine are only permitted (ACO approval).
The English might be a bit quaint, but this explains why the cockpits are the way they are - the templates referred to allow for driver and passenger. Incidentally, although published in English and French, the French version prevails. The two versions do not always agree. Most of the time close reading of the French version will pay off, English only speaking teams should be aware of this and plan accordingly.
R+C
07-31-2005, 08:26 AM
#6
Originally Posted by Nordschleife
From the ACO regulations:
ART. 14 – COCKPIT
14.1 - The cockpit must provide the best protection for the driver.
14.1.1 - It must be possible to fit symmetrically about the vertical plane passing through the longitudinal centreline of the car two seats of equal shape and size excluding the shoulder supports and/or the mandatory protections mentioned in articles 15.4, 16.1.1 and 16.3.
14.1.2 - The driver's feet must be located aft of the vertical plane passing through the front axle centreline.
14.1.3 - Empty volumes :
Two volumes of equal dimensions defined by six flat surfaces with 90° angles and symmetrical to the longitudinal centreline of the car must be provided for the legs of both occupants.
a/ Dimensions :
a.1 -; Length : from the pedals vertical plane to the vertical projection of the steering wheel centreline ;
a.2 - Minimum width : 330 mm ;
a.3 - Minimum height : 300 mm.
At Scrutineers' request, the competitor must show the two volumes during scrutineering.
b/ The only components allowed to intrude into these volumes, any other being excluded including the bulkheads across, are :
b.1 - The steering column and its universal joints ;
b.2 - The suspension arms pick-up points if not a danger for the driver ;
b.3 - The foot-rest and the protection stuffing for the driver if removable in order to allow the empty volumes to be controlled.
14.1.4 - The areas adjacent to the driver must include a protection padding.
14.1.5 – Cockpit opening and volume :
a/ Open car
a.1 - The cockpit must allow the insertion of template 1, the dimensions and position of which are defined by drawing n°3. For this check, equipment mentioned in article 14.1.6.a may be removed.
a.2 – All the points of the chassis structure that delimit the cockpit opening on the sides, at the front and at the rear must be at least 500 mm above the reference surface ;
a.3 - Are only permitted on top of the cockpit opening safety devices mandatory in Art. 15 ;
a.4 – The forward extremity of the cockpit opening must be at least 50 mm in front of the steering wheel, whatever its operational position.
and
ART. 16 - SAFETY STRUCTURES
16.1 - Rollover structures :
16.1.1 - Main rollover structures :
a/ Two safety rollover structures (front and rear) are mandatory.
They must be :
a.1 - At least 660 mm (920 mm for closed cars) at the front and 1020 mm (open cars only) at the rear above the reference surface ;
a.2 - Separated a minimum of 860 mm longitudinally (600 mm for closed cars);
a.3 - Covered with fireproof foam (FIA approved) as far as tubes close to the driver are concerned.
a.4 - Be symmetrical to the longitudinal centreline of the car.
b/ The driver at the wheel, the helmet must be at a minimum distance of 80 mm from the line connecting the top of front and rear rollover structures. (see drawing n°9).
c/ As viewed from the front, the steering wheel, whatever its position, must not protrude from the front rollover structure (open cars only) ;
d/ Should streamlining or fairing cover the front and/or rear rollover structures its upper part must have a maximum length of 200 mm (longitudinal measurement) and it must allow inspection of the mounting areas on the main structure, by the Scrutineers.
e/ The rear structure must also :
e1 - have a minimum overall length of 300 mm measured at the level of the mountings on the survival cell.
e.2 - have a minimum height of 165 mm (open cars only) relative to the secondary rollover structure of the survival cell, described in article 16.1.2 (see drawing n°9).
e.3 - on a frontal projection, the external sides must form an angle of 30° minimum to one another (see drawing n°10).
16.1.2. - Secondary rollover structure :
The part of the survival cell situated rearward of the driver must form a secondary rollover structure, the purpose of which is to protect the occupants in the case of a failure of the main rear rollover structure described in article 16.1.1 above.
Viewed from the front, this structure must be symmetric about the longitudinal centreline of the car and must always extend beyond the outline of the driver's helmet.
Its external sides must form an angle of 40° minimum to one another and its upper part must have a minimum diameter of 280 mm (see drawing n°10).
The secondary rollover structure must have a minimum height of 855 mm relative to the reference surface.
The minimum frontal section as defined above must be at 100 mm maximum backward the foremost point of the secondary structure.
The front must be closed. Air intakes for the engine are only permitted (ACO approval).
The English might be a bit quaint, but this explains why the cockpits are the way they are - the templates referred to allow for driver and passenger. Incidentally, although published in English and French, the French version prevails. The two versions do not always agree. Most of the time close reading of the French version will pay off, English only speaking teams should be aware of this and plan accordingly.
R+C
ART. 14 – COCKPIT
14.1 - The cockpit must provide the best protection for the driver.
14.1.1 - It must be possible to fit symmetrically about the vertical plane passing through the longitudinal centreline of the car two seats of equal shape and size excluding the shoulder supports and/or the mandatory protections mentioned in articles 15.4, 16.1.1 and 16.3.
14.1.2 - The driver's feet must be located aft of the vertical plane passing through the front axle centreline.
14.1.3 - Empty volumes :
Two volumes of equal dimensions defined by six flat surfaces with 90° angles and symmetrical to the longitudinal centreline of the car must be provided for the legs of both occupants.
a/ Dimensions :
a.1 -; Length : from the pedals vertical plane to the vertical projection of the steering wheel centreline ;
a.2 - Minimum width : 330 mm ;
a.3 - Minimum height : 300 mm.
At Scrutineers' request, the competitor must show the two volumes during scrutineering.
b/ The only components allowed to intrude into these volumes, any other being excluded including the bulkheads across, are :
b.1 - The steering column and its universal joints ;
b.2 - The suspension arms pick-up points if not a danger for the driver ;
b.3 - The foot-rest and the protection stuffing for the driver if removable in order to allow the empty volumes to be controlled.
14.1.4 - The areas adjacent to the driver must include a protection padding.
14.1.5 – Cockpit opening and volume :
a/ Open car
a.1 - The cockpit must allow the insertion of template 1, the dimensions and position of which are defined by drawing n°3. For this check, equipment mentioned in article 14.1.6.a may be removed.
a.2 – All the points of the chassis structure that delimit the cockpit opening on the sides, at the front and at the rear must be at least 500 mm above the reference surface ;
a.3 - Are only permitted on top of the cockpit opening safety devices mandatory in Art. 15 ;
a.4 – The forward extremity of the cockpit opening must be at least 50 mm in front of the steering wheel, whatever its operational position.
and
ART. 16 - SAFETY STRUCTURES
16.1 - Rollover structures :
16.1.1 - Main rollover structures :
a/ Two safety rollover structures (front and rear) are mandatory.
They must be :
a.1 - At least 660 mm (920 mm for closed cars) at the front and 1020 mm (open cars only) at the rear above the reference surface ;
a.2 - Separated a minimum of 860 mm longitudinally (600 mm for closed cars);
a.3 - Covered with fireproof foam (FIA approved) as far as tubes close to the driver are concerned.
a.4 - Be symmetrical to the longitudinal centreline of the car.
b/ The driver at the wheel, the helmet must be at a minimum distance of 80 mm from the line connecting the top of front and rear rollover structures. (see drawing n°9).
c/ As viewed from the front, the steering wheel, whatever its position, must not protrude from the front rollover structure (open cars only) ;
d/ Should streamlining or fairing cover the front and/or rear rollover structures its upper part must have a maximum length of 200 mm (longitudinal measurement) and it must allow inspection of the mounting areas on the main structure, by the Scrutineers.
e/ The rear structure must also :
e1 - have a minimum overall length of 300 mm measured at the level of the mountings on the survival cell.
e.2 - have a minimum height of 165 mm (open cars only) relative to the secondary rollover structure of the survival cell, described in article 16.1.2 (see drawing n°9).
e.3 - on a frontal projection, the external sides must form an angle of 30° minimum to one another (see drawing n°10).
16.1.2. - Secondary rollover structure :
The part of the survival cell situated rearward of the driver must form a secondary rollover structure, the purpose of which is to protect the occupants in the case of a failure of the main rear rollover structure described in article 16.1.1 above.
Viewed from the front, this structure must be symmetric about the longitudinal centreline of the car and must always extend beyond the outline of the driver's helmet.
Its external sides must form an angle of 40° minimum to one another and its upper part must have a minimum diameter of 280 mm (see drawing n°10).
The secondary rollover structure must have a minimum height of 855 mm relative to the reference surface.
The minimum frontal section as defined above must be at 100 mm maximum backward the foremost point of the secondary structure.
The front must be closed. Air intakes for the engine are only permitted (ACO approval).
The English might be a bit quaint, but this explains why the cockpits are the way they are - the templates referred to allow for driver and passenger. Incidentally, although published in English and French, the French version prevails. The two versions do not always agree. Most of the time close reading of the French version will pay off, English only speaking teams should be aware of this and plan accordingly.
R+C
You have a PM,
Glen
