A few guys I work with and myself want to take on a "local" road course, and Willow Springs isn't too far away.

Does anyone have any experience with renting their tracks for the day/half day? The prices online seem reasonable, but there are a lot of other costs associated with racing that aren't published up front (emergency crews, corner workers, insurance costs, etc).

Personally, I think we are all more concerned with 'other drivers' on the course. Renting the track exclusively would mitigate a large majority of that risk.

I'm not planning on doing this as a part of a "club event", just wanted to get together with four or five buddies and doodle around for the weekend. Any advice (outside of the "learn how to drive your car/take a lesson" advice, which we will all be doing prior) is appreciated.

 

It is much safer with proper corner workers, emt staff, etc.

Also rent the streets of willow not big willow. Streets is much safer and slower circuit.

 

Their rental rates are on their website. They're pretty booked up on the weekends. They won't supply corner workers and emt's. you'll probably want to have these types of folks around.

I agree w/ m758... get the streets 1st. it's also cheaper. If you don't have much track experience, get an instructor as well.

 

This isn't what you're asking for, but I'll say it anyway: it's MUCH safer (and simpler, and cheaper) to do what you're talking about through an established group. A bunch of unsupervised guys with little-to-no track experience, no matter how much they value their expensive cars, is not a safe thing out on a track. You'd be surprised to see how quickly your good (car-preserving) intentions dissolve away as the day goes on and you begin to get a false sense of security about what it is you're doing.

Having instructors (at least on hand) can head off dangerous stuff before a group of newcomers would even know that they're putting themselves at risk. Having an instructor give a quick talk before people go out there is also very important. A track is NOT like a set public roads with no police, stop signs, or head-on traffic. It's designed for a different kind of driving altogether.

At DE's and track days, car-to-car contact because of inappropriate conduct (or any other factor) is much more rare than you probably think. The far-more-common scenario is an individual driver putting himself at risk as he gets more and more focused on improving his speeds. With less and less awareness of what's going on around him, he pushes too hard -- not knowing he lacks many of the basic skills he needs for track driving -- and he finds himself in a suddenly-unfamiliar situation (sliding, spinning, running out of track) before ending up in a ditch -- or against a wall -- or rolling his car.

What you're talking about isn't the most dangerous thing in the world. But it's not as safe as signing up for a group that offers a quick classroom session and one-on-one driving instruction.

(Mister-Teacher-Dad lecture now finished. )

 

Hi and thanks for the quick responses. I'm considering hiring an instructor to be on site for the duration of our visit.

The original intent of the message, however, was to get a better idea of what types of people/services we would need to hire for the day/half day. The corner workers, EMTs, et. al. are not mentioned on the willow springs website (again, were mentioned by their staff). Does anyone have a general "list" of good-to-have and must-have staff?

Per the WS staffers, "first time renters only get to rent the streets, we won't rent you the big track for the day".. fair enough, they've probably seen their fare share of unnecessary gore for noobies on the big track.

 

I'm with Jack. While a track day with 5-10 friends might be fun, I think you will have a safer experience in an organized event with the full compliment of corner workers, tow truck, EMT people etc. I've done over 40 events in the last 2.5 years and have seen 1 incident of car-to-car contact (caused by a spin in a corner and the following car not stopping in time). I don't think that it would be any different with friends or strangers. As Jack points out, for a group of guys that are mostly novice to intermediate, the most important factor becomes coaching from the instructors.

 

The short list is that you need corner workers, the EMT team, and insurance.

The small track is less likely to kill you, but (oddly) it's more likely to do damage to your cars. This is because it's a lot more technical, and has a lot more 'slow' corners -- which newcomers typically take too fast. The big track has fewer and faster corners, which newcomers tend to take slower than they need to (not that that's a bad thing when you're first learning). The small track is going to be more frustrating to learn, even with instructors, and you'll never get that much higher than fast freeway speeds on it.

Both are fun tracks. Both (in my opinion) are safe for novice drivers if they have decent instruction.

If you can ditch work for a weekday, it's easy to get all of the above at the big track for a day for less than $150 per driver, if you drive with a group. You'll get 2.5 hours of track time, which will wipe you out, guaranteed.

But the EMT and corner workers tend to always be the same crew. I'm surprised the WSIR office doesn't give out their info. I guess one way to get it would be to visit the track and ask them for their info. Or if someone here has done what you're doing, hopefully they'll post.

 

"A bunch of unsupervised guys with little-to-no track experience, no matter how much they value their expensive cars, is not a safe thing out on a track."
_________
absolutely.

drive with an established group and be safe out there.

 

Porsche Owner's Club has their semi-annual Drivers Education Class at The Streets of Willow on Saturday, September 10th. Sunday will be a standard STS event with instructors.

The school will include classroom instruction as well as skidpad, slalom and on-track exercises.This school is going to include some new excercises to increase driver skills. We will be teaching, trail braking, threshold braking and car classification along with all of the standard school programs.
You can read a ongoing thread about the event on POC's website here:
http://www.porscheownersclub.org/mbo...d=854&posts=17

 

In my GT3 I hit the rev limiter in 3rd (if I don't grab 4th) right before the esses running CW on the "little" track at Willow (Streets). That is around 120 mph. Also head into turn one around 105 mph under 3/4 throttle.

Like to know what freeways you run on at those speeds Jack.

Maybe you were talking about the Autobahn?

Seriously, I wouldn't underestimate Streets of Willow. Jack's right in there is more of a chance there to serious damage as the slower speeds make you think you are safer. On the other hand you most likely will learn WAY more car control and have more fun at Streets. I really like this track a lot and consider it my "home" track as I run there more often then anywhere else (with the POC, Speed Ventures and private rentals).

I would seriously encourage you to take John's suggestion and attend the POC school on September 10th. This will give you a great chance to try out the track with excellent instructors. And it's cheap!

After the school experience you will probably get more out of your private track day should you rent streets in the future.

-Kevin

 

Not everyone has GT3... In my car at big willow I just reach about 120. I have not driven streets, but my guess is that I would not get out of 4th gear (lower than 100mph for my low hp race car).


The biggest thing to remeber is that an off at streets vs an off at big willow involves alot more speed at big willow.

 

Really? I thought Porsche was giving out GT3's with the purchase of every Cayenne.

My point was that anyone in a late model 996 (or a new 997) would be reaching some serious speeds even at streets - it is a small but far from "little" track.

Agreed. Amazingly there are more things to hit at the big track like the banking outside turn 3. And of course there is always the problem with an on-off and spin across the track at 9 taking someone else out. I've seen the result of that twice in the last 4 years.

Bottom line is that the big track requires some serious pucker factor - especially with a fast car.

 

I also highly recomend checking out the POC event prior to doing any private rental, if you don't have any track experience I think it's a must. In my experience the POC gives a lot more (and better quality) instruction to newbies than your average track event group. You will also have more fun when you do decide to rent the track if you've been there before and have a better understanding of the lines and how your car behaves there.

I'm not sure that the flaggers or EMTs are required for private rentals, although I think it's a good idea. I've seen private rentals at big Willow and Buttonwillow without any of the safety crews, although the groups were being privately instructed by top notch drivers.

 

Do yourself and your friends a favor, go out with an established group with proper instruction. There have been deaths at tracks being run for fun with minimal guidance.

 

I brought up negatives for the Streets course only because of the context of this partiucular thread. If a guy and his friends imagine renting a race track, they've generally got an image in their minds of something that's more like the big track, and less like Streets. It's fun to go fast, and I think non-track-drivers imagine race track driving as primarily about being able to go really fast, without the interference of law enforcement or delivery trucks.

But I like Streets. And I think the POC suggestion is a good one. (I'm a POC instructor, and might be instructing at the 9/10 event.)