tsjoel

Having only done 2 DE's I realize I am a novice with much to learn. I also understand that with good technique speed will come. I sometimes go into a corner too hot and scrub some speed. When I go in slow I don't always feel like I am actually saving time but I know I am. A smooth lap should be faster than an eratic, sliding all over the place but it doesnt always feel that way. I was thinking of getting a laptimer to track my skills and how they equate to a faster lap.
Does the PCA allow laptimers at DE events?
Do instructors frown on them for group 3 students?
Do I need a transmitter or is there usually one at the track? (ultralap was the one I was leaning toward)?

Thanks in advance for your help!

ed devinney

Some like them, some don't. At a novice level I think they don't tell much. A technique I've used to monitor progress is to check exit speed out of the corners.

Jon Moeller

I don't think that any PCA club will allow you to run a lap timing system at a DE. A few of the private groups (PDA, TrackMasters, etc) allow this, but most do not for insurance reasons.

Given your time on track, I would strongly suggest that you avoid using lap times, as you could very well find time in the wrong places, and pick up bad habits that you'll spend a lot of time trying to get rid of. A far more accurate gauge is to use the cars around you. If there's a car that passes you, try to see what he's doing, or better yet, if there's a car that you're beating in the straights, but loses you in the corners, hang with him for a bit.

Another good way to learn is to ride with instructors. A couple of hot laps with a good instructor will show you how much you're really leaving on the table, whether you're riding in his car or in yours.

-Jon

DER951

At many DE's I attend, timers are "not allowed" but they are usually several set up, and nothing is usually said. One altenative is a camcorder in the car. I let the clock show, and you can slow it down when viewing to get the exact time you cross the start/finish. More importantly, you can review any part of any lap, and see where you were off line or made other mistakes. Makes good bench racing material when the day is over and refreshments are being served. Videos are also good when going back to a track you haven't been to for a while, as a sort of "refresher".

tsjoel

Maybe a bullet camera would be a better learning device because I could do some evaluation of my apexes. Do any of you use cameras for this purpose?

Bob Rouleau

Joel - You are getting good advice. As a novice don't waste your effort on lap times. Concentrate on learning to drive your car smoothly. Practice fading off the brakes - not releasing them with a jerk; rolling on the gas progressively, all the things your instructor is telling you. You will find yourself going faster with greater confidence and control, you'll also become more consistent. Once you are consistent then some timing can help evaluate different techniques. What good is a hot lap read out that shows ten laps which vary by 10-15 seconds? You have to be more consistent for timing to become meaningful. By the time you are consistent you are going to be fast anyway

Timing is permitted in some PCA reasons "for instructional purposes only" - North Country Region is one. I am not sure if a hot lap timer is considered instructional. Check with the PCA region where you run. My region, Rennsport does not allow timing for one simple reason. Insurance policies usually have wording which denies coverage for accidents in a "speed event". The litmus test of a speed event is .... timing.

Rgds,

tsjoel

as far as insurance companies covering any DE off road excursion I think a lap timer might strengthen their case but I think they will deny the claim no matter what. guilty!

forklift

..

38D

While DEs are not "timed events", some regions still allow individuals to use hotlap timers.

I personally think that lap times are and important part of the learning process, but more on a year over year basis. Since at DEs you have to wait for a signal, laptimes tend to have much more variability. It's also is fun to use as a comparison tool vs. club race times. I think that using a video camera is a better tool than a hotlap timer, since you can see the line & traffic aspects, and you can still get laptimes using the RC timecode as you cross the start finish line. Hotlaps are really nice for race qualifying.

JackOlsen

I've driven with over a dozen DE groups, including the PCA. Out west, at least, I've never seen a group that didn't allow lap timers.

Of the in-car timers, I think Ultralap makes the most sense. Buy it with a transmitter, and you'll never need to worry. Still, there will usually be an AIM or Ultralap transmitter at well-attended events.

Running a video camera in the car is a great way to help see the effect of driving on lap times. On most computers, you can show the time code on the laps and calculate lap times after importing the footage to your computer. You can then run several lap videos simultaneously and see where one lap is losing time to another.

Above all this, though, the best and quickest way to get faster is to get as much in-car instruction as possible. Get faster guys to ride along with you, and also ride along with faster guys. Try to check your ego in taking criticism about what you're doing well and poorly. 'Self-teaching' yourself track driving will usually lead to frustration, disappointment and (finally) disinterest. Working with someone who knows how to do it (most DE groups provide instruction or at least make it available) will make you faster than adding a turbocharger.

Bob Rouleau

Colin - I agree on the in car video camera. It is not real time timing so it does not violate the no timing rule where such exists and you can relate the time to the driving.

38D

The main reason I think that lap times are good it is a concrete way to see if you are actually improving. I think lots of people at DEs tend to plateau, and just stay the same speed forever.

Lothar

A lap timer is of little use, considering the number of clean laps that I get. Having to lift for point-by's from five or six cars per lap makes my Hot Lap timer pretty useless. However, a button mounted on the steering wheel to take segment times might be a better idea. Then you can work on one part of the track at a time.

mikew968

Why not have your instructor time you on some of your laps? That way you can focus on driving and they can share the lap times after the session is over as you debrief.


Mike

TD in DC

Just get a DL1. You can calculate lap times, segment times and whatever you want without having to set up anything outside your car. Is data necessary for a beginning/intermediate driver? No. Is it fun and interesting? You bet. It doesn't change the way I drive. Video, on the other hand, is extremely useful. It helps you "expand" your driving time by allowing you to relive what you have done as well as "see" your driving from an outsider's perspective. Finally, it allows you to relisten to your instructor's comments when you are not trying to focus all attention on driving. Very useful. I don't think I would have made as much progress in such a short period of time without it.