mamoroso

Morris
it would not have been a race. The Michelin teams would have not received the points. It was just for the show. If you were at a Club race and all of your competition said "Morris you take the win but lety's put a chicane there so that the public will see a race and we will not have a safety issue" I am sure you'd have said yes.

yetis

After driving 12 hours to see this, I was pretty pissed. The only thing that made up for it was the Porsche Super Cup race. Anyone know who the poor devil in the Dell Supercup car was?

Anyway, regarding F1 and a little aside. On Saturday afternoon, as we watched the Supercup race from the stands, we ran into David Hobbs and not make a big deal out of things ask, how things going?

His response at the time, seemed odly out of place " I have been better"....Wow!

I guess if we only knew what was coming...

Premier Motorsp

Wombat,

Your anti-Ferrari position is not defensible. The FIA decided against the chicane, regardless of whether Ferrari wanted it or not. The whole 'nine teams' statement was designed to shift the blame from the FIA to Ferrari. Don't fall for it.

Minardi's gambit at Australia was BS, as pointed out by RJ. Ferrari should be prasied for having the ***** to stand up to that. Rules are rules.

I don't see how people can be pissed at Michelin. Yes, they screwed it up big time, owned up to it, and are now paying the price. They are the only ones in this scenario who have been totally straightforward about the facts.

I have finally come up with the correct action that the FIA should have taken! The FIA should have mandated that each F1 team contact with a Porsche Supercup team to run the Supercup cars in the F1 race. Everyone would have been happy. The teams could have paid each Cup team two million dollars for the use of their cars and equipment. The F1 teams would save huge money, and the Cup teams make huge money. Michelin still showcases their tires. And I am quite sure the show would have been much better than a good F1 race!

Chris Cervelli
Premier Motorsports

ColorChange

RJay, I'm all in agreement with you!

Wombat, big disagreement with you. If I am Ferrrari, who has been destroyed all year BECAUSE of their bad tires, is asked to "accomodate" the incompetance of their competitors, you would get an instant No Frickin' way. There SOLE job is to win the race, preferably within the rules. They have NO direct obligations to the fans and should NEVER put their cars/drivers at risk for the sake of the "show".

Chris: It would have been fun to watch the F1 guys race cups, but certainly not fo F1 points. The only thing they could have done is run the race. If the Michelin teams chose not to compete, or change tires, that is up to them.

wombat7

Alright I think my comments were taken the wrong way. In no way am I placing all the blame for the lack of racing on Ferrari. I'm just saying that I think it was wrong of them to refuse to compromise and give the American people the race that they had paid for. Yes I know that it was ultimately the FIAs ruling against the chicane, and yes Michelin didn't provide its teams with tires, but something should've been done so that all the teams could race. If the FIA just said that to shift the blame to Ferrari then I think they did a pretty good job since there are many other boards on the internet blaming them. People may have been upset if Montoya or some other driver won the race and then Schumacher or someone else stood on the top of the podium, but I think they would've been less upset than they were with the joke of a race that happened yesterday.

I still don't understand how putting in the chicane would've done anything but give the ticket holders a chance to see the race that they came for? If it is such a big deal, allow the Bridgestone shod cars to run through the chicane, but require the Michelin shod cars to run around it.

P.Po

FYI - posted on Saturday night before the race....

"
We are very surprised that this difficulty has arisen. As you know, each team is allowed to bring two different types of tyre to an event so as to ensure that a back-up (usually of lower performance) is available should problems occur. It is hard to understand why you have not supplied your teams with such a tyre given your years of experience at Indianapolis.

That the teams you supply are not in possession of such a tyre will also be a matter for the FIA to consider in due course under Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.

No doubt you will inform your teams what is the maximum safe speed for their cars in Turn 13. We will remind them of the need to follow your advice for safety reasons. We will also ask them to ensure their cars do not obstruct other competitors.

Some of the teams have raised with us the possibility of running a tyre which was not used in qualifying. We have told them this would be a breach of the rules to be considered by the stewards. We believe the penalty would not be exclusion but would have to be heavy enough to ensure that no team was tempted to use qualifying tyres in the future.

Another possibility would be for the relevant teams repeatedly to change the affected tyre during the race (we understand you have told your teams the left rear is safe for a maximum of ten laps at full speed). If the technical delegate and the stewards were satisfied that each change was made because the tyre would otherwise fail (thus for genuine safety reasons) and that the relevant team were not gaining an advantage, there would be no penalty. If this meant using tyres additional to a teams’ allocation, the stewards would consider all the circumstances in deciding what penalty, if any, to apply.

Finally, it has been suggested that a chicane should be laid out in Turn 13. I am sure you will appreciate that this is out of the question. To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie Whiting
FIA Formula One Race Director
"

So the Michelin teams could run with the tires they flew over.... but they would be penalised. So why didn't they accept that and put on the show??

I think there is more going on here then we believe... obviously somebody is trying to screw the FIA.

-Patrick

P.Po

Wombat,

They could have put on a race if the Michelin teams accepted a penalty for using the tires they did not qualify on, as per the rules. Why didn't they do that even after Michelin flew the new tires over from France???

-Patrick

RJay

More than that!!! I hadn't seen the qoute that they could have run 9 laps in safety and have to pit for changes. They could have gone out done 5-9 laps, changed tires for safety reasons and the show could have gone on. They could have run at full speed and done extra 7-9 extra pit stops. Why did no team take this option? Particularly as it would have resulted in some potential points. Surely there must be more here than meets the eye!

Premier Motorsp

I am sure the 'new tires flown over from France' were either fictional or Michelin decided that they weren't any good either.

I don't know how long it takes to make tires but it seems impossible to make about 30 sets of tires and fly them to Indy in the time they had. Michelin's resources are essentially unlimited (certainly in this situation all the stops would have been pulled), but if it takes 3 days to make a tire then there was nothing they could do.

My Supercup suggestion is semi-joking, although it would have been hugely entertaining. Some 'out of the box' thinking like that could have certainly helped the situation.

Michelin makes special rear tires for Supercup at Indy, by the way.

Chris Cervelli
Premier Motorsports

P.Po

Chris,

Chris wrote: "I am sure the 'new tires flown over from France' were either fictional or Michelin decided that they weren't any good either."

I agree with your point. But apparently they had enough tires left over from the Barcelona race the each team could have a set. Briatore said something along the lines that those tires would be 1-2 seconds a lap slower here and they want a better solution... I am digging for the quote now...

Chris wrote: "Michelin makes special rear tires for Supercup at Indy, by the way."

Hmmmmm.....

-Patrick

Premier Motorsp

It seems unlikely that Barcelona tires could have survived better than tires made for Indy, however screwed up they were.

If the teams did have an option available that Michelin approved, and chose not to use it, then that action is stupid and inexcusable. That does not make sense though. Even if the alternate tire was slow, they would have to try to avoid the guaranteed Ferrari 1-2 that occured since they didn't race.

The thing that irks me so much is this: Sometimes in business you are presented with a **** sandwich, and your only option is to gobble it up. FIA walked away from the table instead.

Chris Cervelli
Premier Motorsports

JCP911S

This is what we call a "Cluster F**K"... nobody is clearly right or wrong...but the net result of alot of defensible individual decisions was a fiasco of major proportions.... the "villian" ihere, f there is one , is the F1 system itself.... technocratic, political, rulebound and opaque... very "European" in its way.

This clashes with the more "American" approach that the "Show" is most important... the result matters, not how you got there... if the rules don;t produce, change them...

I am not here to start some infantile "us vs them" debate, but there is a clear culture distinction between F1 and say NASCAR... and a reason why F1 in the US is a fringe sport at best... as an F1 fan of long tenure, I understand what happened... but am no less angry for that... and even more angry becasue I cannot really point a finger of blame... when everybody is guilty, nobody is guilty...

Bottom line (as us 'Mericans are want to say) it doesn;t matter whose at fault.... but IMHO F1 has taken a huge blow... and the reply to the recurring question of "why isn't F1 more popiular in the U.S.?" has been answered.. whether deserved or not, when you F-Up that badly on that big a stage, it really doesn;t matter why....

JCP911S

Spell that "F1asco"

ColorChange

I completely agree with the FIA in this one. Here is their official statement.

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that "tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances"(see correspondence attached).

A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules."

DJF1

CC, thanks for posting this. Yes absolutely they are 100% right. Especially on the above 2 paragraphs. Last night I was watching on the VCR the Barca GP as I had missed it live. Schumacher had 2 tire failures, one directly related to the construction of the tire! Did anyone say anything? Did anyone cried foul?
I blaim squarely the teams on the failure to produce a show. They had the chance of running, 10 laps at a time at FULL speed. Instead they ganged up and screwed everyone for their interest. Unfortunately they are many so they thought that they could pull muscle. Well it did not work so now the fans for the shaft and everyone is blaming FIA!
Like FIA said:
. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One.

End of story...