LSD vs Open Diff
06-17-2005, 01:44 AM
#16
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The 944 LSD is not asymetrical AFAIK, so if it's 40%, it's always 40%...
06-17-2005, 04:34 AM
#18
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by WesM951
Jupe,
I had planned on keeping it stock, but adding a roll cage, seats and harnesses.
Could you guys link me to some class rules? PCA and DE are prob the main things I will race.
I had planned on keeping it stock, but adding a roll cage, seats and harnesses.
Could you guys link me to some class rules? PCA and DE are prob the main things I will race.
"Factory limited slip differentials are allowed"
In Prepared:
"Non-factory limited slip of any type is allowed"
PCA Club Racing rules
06-17-2005, 08:16 AM
#19
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Arlington, VA
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LSD/PCA Rules
Here's a link to the PCA Club Racing site and rules.
I have for 8 years raced a 1986 944NA in "H" prepared and, with all due respect to those that say an LSD will make you faster, I disagree. The problem that an LSD solves does not exist in a 944NA. I WISH I could get throttle induced oversteer but there's not enough power.
I have an LSD in my car but it was put there for one turn on one track - the hair pin at Sebring and that turn is no longer part of the configuration.
A 951's a different issue but and LSD in a stock 944 NA is a waste of money (IMHO).
Good luck!
I have for 8 years raced a 1986 944NA in "H" prepared and, with all due respect to those that say an LSD will make you faster, I disagree. The problem that an LSD solves does not exist in a 944NA. I WISH I could get throttle induced oversteer but there's not enough power.
I have an LSD in my car but it was put there for one turn on one track - the hair pin at Sebring and that turn is no longer part of the configuration.
A 951's a different issue but and LSD in a stock 944 NA is a waste of money (IMHO).
Good luck!
06-17-2005, 08:20 AM
#20
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Arlington, VA
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LSD/PCA Rules
Here's a link to the PCA Club Racing site and rules.
http://www.pca.org/pca/clubrace/docs/forms.htm
I have for 8 years raced a 1986 944NA in "H" prepared and, with all due respect to those that say an LSD will make you faster, I disagree. The problem that an LSD solves does not exist in a 944NA. I WISH I could get throttle induced oversteer but there's not enough power.
I have an LSD in my car but it was put there for one turn on one track - the hair pin at Sebring and that turn is no longer part of the configuration.
A 951's a different issue but and LSD in a stock 944 NA is a waste of money (IMHO).
Good luck!
http://www.pca.org/pca/clubrace/docs/forms.htm
I have for 8 years raced a 1986 944NA in "H" prepared and, with all due respect to those that say an LSD will make you faster, I disagree. The problem that an LSD solves does not exist in a 944NA. I WISH I could get throttle induced oversteer but there's not enough power.
I have an LSD in my car but it was put there for one turn on one track - the hair pin at Sebring and that turn is no longer part of the configuration.
A 951's a different issue but and LSD in a stock 944 NA is a waste of money (IMHO).
Good luck!
06-17-2005, 10:28 AM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info guys. I read through the PCA rules last night, yes all 24pages. Seems everything I wanted to do to the car is required by PCA Rules. (Cage, Seats, Harnesses ect) Which wouldn't put me in a "prepared" class if I understand the rules correctly.
I think i'll keep the LSD, since the car does come with it stock (option code 220). The offer was I could remove the LSD from the car and replace it with open-diff rear.
I think i'll keep the LSD, since the car does come with it stock (option code 220). The offer was I could remove the LSD from the car and replace it with open-diff rear.
06-17-2005, 10:29 AM
#23
Originally Posted by kurt M
Not to mention that they consume some horsepower regardless of inside wheel spin or not.
06-17-2005, 10:35 AM
#24
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by TD in DC
D'oh. I hadn't thought of that. My new 944 has LSD and the lower 5th gear . . .
TD, What are you planning on racing in your 944?
06-17-2005, 10:41 AM
#25
Originally Posted by WesM951
TD, What are you planning on racing in your 944?
06-17-2005, 10:52 AM
#26
Race Director
Wes:
Do you have any autox or DE experience? If not, I suggest that you start there. Both will help you understand vehicle dynamics and will prepare you for Club Racing. DE is NOT racing. However, DE offers you the opportunity to learn how to drive your car on the track -- you will be able to learn concepts like late/early apexing, throttle steering, the line...etc. It is far better to learn these concepts in a non-competitive environment.
That said, spend a couple of years doing DE's. Get some seat time and experience with driving a car on the track. Worry not about LSD or open diff - either will work fine as you learn.
The reason I say this is because I had a conversation with an 'old dog' that is a veteran of PCA Club racing as well as SCCA racing. Earlier this year, he was forced off the track by a young gun. He (my friend) was given a 13/13. He proceeded to hand in his racing license to the officials, stating that the PCA program is getting too dangerous. There are people who run in the lower run groups in PCA DE run groups that are joining the ranks of club racing! This is absurd. If you want to race, do the appropriate amount of prep work (seat time) to qualify for it. There are plenty of racing schools as well as opportunities within PCA and POC to get good quality seat time in a non-competitive environment. Doing that first will not only give you a competitive edge, but also gives you a better track awareness.
IMHO, unless you're running in the Black or Red run groups in PCA DE (ie: upper/advanced/instructor run groups), you shouldn't be venturing into club racing. (Ok: maybe White run group too)
Just my $0.42,
-Z.
Do you have any autox or DE experience? If not, I suggest that you start there. Both will help you understand vehicle dynamics and will prepare you for Club Racing. DE is NOT racing. However, DE offers you the opportunity to learn how to drive your car on the track -- you will be able to learn concepts like late/early apexing, throttle steering, the line...etc. It is far better to learn these concepts in a non-competitive environment.
That said, spend a couple of years doing DE's. Get some seat time and experience with driving a car on the track. Worry not about LSD or open diff - either will work fine as you learn.
The reason I say this is because I had a conversation with an 'old dog' that is a veteran of PCA Club racing as well as SCCA racing. Earlier this year, he was forced off the track by a young gun. He (my friend) was given a 13/13. He proceeded to hand in his racing license to the officials, stating that the PCA program is getting too dangerous. There are people who run in the lower run groups in PCA DE run groups that are joining the ranks of club racing! This is absurd. If you want to race, do the appropriate amount of prep work (seat time) to qualify for it. There are plenty of racing schools as well as opportunities within PCA and POC to get good quality seat time in a non-competitive environment. Doing that first will not only give you a competitive edge, but also gives you a better track awareness.
IMHO, unless you're running in the Black or Red run groups in PCA DE (ie: upper/advanced/instructor run groups), you shouldn't be venturing into club racing. (Ok: maybe White run group too)
Just my $0.42,
-Z.
06-17-2005, 10:52 AM
#27
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by TD in DC
I don't think I drive well enough to race yet, but once I finish some more DEs, I plan to start here: http://www.44cup.com/ In fact, I bought my car from Dave Derecola, who started the series. Later, I may do PCA things, but first, I need to learn how to drive, which is why I bought the '44 in the first place. I love my 996, but it is really, really fast (and expensive), which makes me a little less confident about learning how to right foot drive.
heh.. I agree with you. I've never been on a track, i'm starting with DE.
06-17-2005, 10:54 AM
#28
Race Director
Originally Posted by WesM951
heh.. I agree with you. I've never been on a track, i'm starting with DE.
(Ignore my rant above... seems I'm preaching to the choir!)
- Z.
06-17-2005, 11:01 AM
#29
Originally Posted by Z-man
Good call.
(Ignore my rant above... seems I'm preaching to the choir!)
- Z.
(Ignore my rant above... seems I'm preaching to the choir!)
- Z.
I have fun doing this. I will never become a pro racer, so unless I am having fun, I am missing the point. Racing before I have the proper skills probably would not be that much fun (totally apart from the danger). I would rather be known as the surprisingly good rookie than the "dangerous young gun," so I am in no hurry.
OT: I am looking into the Skippy school for this fall (as well as the car control skills course). Does anyone know of any other good courses that focus specifically on car control skills?
06-17-2005, 11:49 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Z-man
Wes:
Do you have any autox or DE experience? If not, I suggest that you start there. Both will help you understand vehicle dynamics and will prepare you for Club Racing. DE is NOT racing. However, DE offers you the opportunity to learn how to drive your car on the track -- you will be able to learn concepts like late/early apexing, throttle steering, the line...etc. It is far better to learn these concepts in a non-competitive environment.
That said, spend a couple of years doing DE's. Get some seat time and experience with driving a car on the track. Worry not about LSD or open diff - either will work fine as you learn.
The reason I say this is because I had a conversation with an 'old dog' that is a veteran of PCA Club racing as well as SCCA racing. Earlier this year, he was forced off the track by a young gun. He (my friend) was given a 13/13. He proceeded to hand in his racing license to the officials, stating that the PCA program is getting too dangerous. There are people who run in the lower run groups in PCA DE run groups that are joining the ranks of club racing! This is absurd. If you want to race, do the appropriate amount of prep work (seat time) to qualify for it. There are plenty of racing schools as well as opportunities within PCA and POC to get good quality seat time in a non-competitive environment. Doing that first will not only give you a competitive edge, but also gives you a better track awareness.
IMHO, unless you're running in the Black or Red run groups in PCA DE (ie: upper/advanced/instructor run groups), you shouldn't be venturing into club racing. (Ok: maybe White run group too)
Just my $0.42,
-Z.
Do you have any autox or DE experience? If not, I suggest that you start there. Both will help you understand vehicle dynamics and will prepare you for Club Racing. DE is NOT racing. However, DE offers you the opportunity to learn how to drive your car on the track -- you will be able to learn concepts like late/early apexing, throttle steering, the line...etc. It is far better to learn these concepts in a non-competitive environment.
That said, spend a couple of years doing DE's. Get some seat time and experience with driving a car on the track. Worry not about LSD or open diff - either will work fine as you learn.
The reason I say this is because I had a conversation with an 'old dog' that is a veteran of PCA Club racing as well as SCCA racing. Earlier this year, he was forced off the track by a young gun. He (my friend) was given a 13/13. He proceeded to hand in his racing license to the officials, stating that the PCA program is getting too dangerous. There are people who run in the lower run groups in PCA DE run groups that are joining the ranks of club racing! This is absurd. If you want to race, do the appropriate amount of prep work (seat time) to qualify for it. There are plenty of racing schools as well as opportunities within PCA and POC to get good quality seat time in a non-competitive environment. Doing that first will not only give you a competitive edge, but also gives you a better track awareness.
IMHO, unless you're running in the Black or Red run groups in PCA DE (ie: upper/advanced/instructor run groups), you shouldn't be venturing into club racing. (Ok: maybe White run group too)
Just my $0.42,
-Z.
PCA CR would like an endorsement from the region's Chief Instructor for rookie candidates applying for a racing license with only a DE background. How can a chief instructor evaluate the driver for racing if they themselves are not or have not been a racer?
I thought I knew what racing was all about, but now that I've done one I have a totally new perspective and understanding. I'm sure that understanding will grow as I participate in more races.
There are red and black drivers I know that I would not feel comfortable racing with because they may not have the appropriate awareness and general attitude for racing. The Chief making the license application endorsement needs to understand what is needed in order to evaluate the candidate appropriately.
I write this to recommend to Wes and others looking for an endorsement to seek out a Chief with racing experience to evaluate them. Also, I posted somewhere recently here in Racing & DE my impression of where your driving skills need to be before you go and race. I'll summarize in one sentence: If you can't drive without thinking about braking, turn-in, apex, and track-out, you are not ready to race.